Brain Training, Wii Fit... are they really games?

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Opa-Opa
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Post by Opa-Opa » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:31 am

C=Style wrote:I'm not lying, ask Darren. I've never spoken to him. Stop thinking your so important cos I really don't care enough to pm a complaint about you to anyone.
Still don't stop you from being a stuck up retard with the personality of a Traffic warden with PMT though does it..

Even your friends think your a idiot and they all sleep with your ugly boyfriend behind your back.

Now shut up and leave me alone.

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Post by C=Style » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:34 am

Will do.
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David
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Post by David » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:40 am

Opa-Opa wrote:
C=Style wrote:I'm not lying, ask Darren. I've never spoken to him. Stop thinking your so important cos I really don't care enough to pm a complaint about you to anyone.
Still don't stop you from being a stuck up retard with the personality of a Traffic warden with PMT though does it..

Even your friends think your a idiot and they all sleep with your ugly boyfriend behind your back.

Now shut up and leave me alone.
You know, I honestly don't know why you act like such a d*ck, when everyone else on this forum seems to be really friendly.

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Post by Opa-Opa » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:59 am

David wrote:
You know, I honestly don't know why you act like such a d*ck, when everyone else on this forum seems to be really friendly.
Because everytime I try and leave it alone another mouthy nobody comes along and sticks there 2p worth in.
Why did you just make that post, did you think it would make me change my whole personality just because you pointed out that YOU think I'm a censored..?

Just leave it and I'll stop replying to your silly digs and snipes, then we can all get back on topic and talk about the subject at hand.

I never started this little spat...
c=style wrote: Of course they are not the same lol, oh dear. Kinda missing the point as usual.
Personal attack on me..
c=style wrote:You remind me of the kid at school that has to disagree with everything even though it's painfully obvious you are wrong and direct personal insults at others just to try and stand out from the crowd as your personality is so painfully dim it's the only way you can muster any attention. It's cringeworthy I'm through debating with you, you're a comedy act.
Personal attack yet again...

All I did was respond.

Now.. Can you just stop going on and get back on topic before the thread gets locked.

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Post by C=Style » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:06 am

You can't throw that excuse about because if you hadn't called me "simple" in the first place I wouldn't react. What am I supposed to do just sit there and ignore you? Believe me if these forums had an ignore feature then I'd use it. I'm not here to start fights, I don't just attack people for no reason and always think twice before ever posting in a thread that you have as it always end up with you jibbing me till I bite, then you throw a childish insult at me like a 10 year old boy would. It's not funny, it's not clever it's sad.
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Post by GarryG » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:11 am

Opa-Opa wrote:There are not games.
Just because they are run using a video/visual medium.
I was referring to the comments on Buzz, Guitar Hero, and Rock Band; sorry I should have made that clear!

IMO Anything played through the audio/visual medium and has a purpose or goal that is achieved through the user/medium interaction is a game... they are audio-video-games!? So Brain Training: definitely Yes, Wii Fit, well it does fit my description. Even if the ‘goal’ isn’t an on screen one!
Opa-Opa wrote:Is the classic game Simon a Video game..?
Not the original plastic game no, but if it were a computer port then yes, because then it's still a 'game' played through video.
Opa-Opa wrote:This is funny, the pap like Brian training is made to make money FROM the thickies who can't get to grips with real games... :lol:
Nop, it's aimed at a different audience/demographic than Mario.
Opa-Opa wrote:How on earth is Brain training anything like Battle Chess on the Amiga or Tetris..?
Err, obviously because ther'e all 'brain' games designed to make you think about what you are doing. Same principle as all the other 'puzzle' based games; whether it be on or off the video screen!?!?
Antiriad2097 wrote:Nobody is disputing chess is a game, but its not really a videogame as it doesn't need video to play it.
Well to my mind it's a video game if it's played through the medium of video. So I see my Sargon Chess on the VIC 20 as a 'video game', not it's not the same a Gorf, but they are still two (video) games for my VIC ;)
SirClive wrote:Needing video is not the definition of a videogame though. Does that mean FIFA or Virtua Tennis or Formula 1 Grand Prix aren't games?
Don’t get you here. The games played on a computer/console are video games. The real thing isn’t!?!? I may be being think, not intentionally obtuse, but I can’t see the argument in a lot of these posts. But I am trying ;)
sleeper77 wrote:So we wait and see the sales Samba De Amigo gets. If it goes into the top 10 charts and is advertised on TV with casual-non stereotypical looking videogamers, then I await to hear what the "hardcore gamers" say and if the original Dreamcast version still retains its past status as a harcore game.
A good point! But I suspect they will just say, oh the original DC game is a classic, but the Wii rehash was just for retarded casual-gamers ;) But really a good game is a good game, I like Samba, I also like Buzz and Guitar Hero, oh and a lot of games that are seen as very niche indeed!


Hey, I’m not picking on Opa, he just seems to have raised most of the points I wanted to reply to ;)

So, what do you think qualifies as a ‘video game’?
e.g.
Is an adaptation of chess, monopoly, connect-fore etc a video game?
Is an adaptation of paper based puzzles (scrabble, word-search etc) a game?
What type of puzzle based programs would you class as games?
When can rhythm based programs be classed as games?

I’m seriously interested, not knocking or mocking…

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Post by Opa-Opa » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:25 am

C=Style wrote:Another load of vomit to get me to respond even though he has said that he will just drop it, followed by some more insults...
See what I mean, it just can't stop itself...

GarryG..

Good post.

Questions.

Is an adaptation of chess, monopoly, connect-fore etc a video game? - YES - but only just.

Is an adaptation of paper based puzzles (scrabble, word-search etc) a game? - NO, is a paperless office a games room..?

When can rhythm based programs be classed as games?

If you take away the trimings such as fancy sound and graphics what you have could easy be classed as medical test for things such as eyesight, reflexes etc. If you were asked by a doctor to press a button everytime a yellow light was shown would you class that as a game..? It might be easy, it might have a goal but its not a game, its just a test.

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Post by GarryG » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:40 am

Opa-Opa wrote:If you take away the trimings such as fancy sound and graphics what you have could easy be classed as medical test for things such as eyesight, reflexes etc. If you were asked by a doctor to press a button everytime a yellow light was shown would you class that as a game..? It might be easy, it might have a goal but its not a game, its just a test.
I see your point. But where does the analogy stop? To carry this on to, silly IMO, extremes you could also use the same argument to argue that SHMUPS are just memory/patters recognition tests.


For me I think it all just comes down to what you find 'fun'. Games like Samba, Space Channel 5, and Parrapa have a certain 'fun' element to me that, in my mind, makes them a game.

Maybe the flashing light example would be 'fun' to someone with an IQ in single figures ;) Me I'm well up there with at least 101 :lol:

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Post by Scapegoat » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:06 am

Opa-Opa wrote:
Is an adaptation of chess, monopoly, connect-fore etc a video game? - YES - but only just.

Is an adaptation of paper based puzzles (scrabble, word-search etc) a game? - NO, is a paperless office a games room..?
So, a dictionary definition of a game is "an amusement or pastime" (several sources, slight paraphrase), but you are quite adamant that this excludes ALL paper based games? And you feel that this is important enough to be quite unpleasant to people?

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Post by Emperor Fossil » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:33 am

Opa-Opa wrote:Brian training is made to make money FROM the thickies who can't get to grips with real games... :lol:
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???

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Post by Opa-Opa » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:35 am

Scapegoat wrote:
Opa-Opa wrote:
Is an adaptation of chess, monopoly, connect-fore etc a video game? - YES - but only just.

Is an adaptation of paper based puzzles (scrabble, word-search etc) a game? - NO, is a paperless office a games room..?
So, a dictionary definition of a game is "an amusement or pastime" (several sources, slight paraphrase), but you are quite adamant that this excludes ALL paper based games? And you feel that this is important enough to be quite unpleasant to people?
Right - Stop with the being all righteous and PC..
If you don't like the way I put things, TOUGH!! If you want me start being all "unpleasant" to you then carry on with your little digs, if not then let me just be me.

To answer you question, you looking to deep, getting out the dictionary and finding out the exact meaning of one word is going to far.

All I am saying is something like Brain training which is designed to be used by people who have no interest in games isn't really a video game as we know them and shouldn't really be classed as one.
They are simple tests for numeracy and literacy very simular to the entry level NVQ's which need an electronic device to be completed rather than a biro and a sheet of A4. Putting it on a computer/console doesn't make it or the tests it is based on a game...

Things like Battle Ships and connect four are at least based on games to start with, they are an electronic/video version of a game.

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Post by Matt_B » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:51 am

Scrabble isn't just a game, it's a brilliant game. :P

I'd say that the element of competition distinguishes it from word puzzles; if you play it well, you'll be making moves to block your opponents rather than just to maximize your own score.

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Post by Scapegoat » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:52 am

Opa-Opa wrote:
Right - Stop with the being all righteous and PC..
Self-righteous maybe, but how has anything I've said been construed as PC?
Opa-Opa wrote: To answer you question, you looking to deep, getting out the dictionary and finding out the exact meaning of one word is going to far.
You are defining what constitutes a "game" purely from your opinion, I am attempting to counter that with something a little closer to proof rather than just my own opinion.
Opa-Opa wrote:
Things like Battle Ships and connect four are at least based on games to start with, they are an electronic/video version of a game.
But based on paper based games, the very thing that you have railed against.

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Post by Opa-Opa » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:05 am

Scapegoat wrote:
Things like Battle Ships and connect four are at least based on games to start with, they are an electronic/video version of a game.

But based on paper based games, the very thing that you have railed against.
I never started out slaging off paper based games, I started off in the other thread (Jap Vs Pal gaming..?) slagging off tests like brain training saying it wasn't a game.
Since then things have been blown all over the place by a disruptive element and gotten confusing...

It doesn't matter how many words people look up in a dictionary, basic entry level maths tests are not games by any definition and it's only the advertisments that try and make us belive they are.
It's like when parents lie to a child to get them to enjoy something such as making learning fun or turning bath time in to a "game" and all that old nonsense.
Last edited by Opa-Opa on Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by pforson » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:07 am

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