Brain Training, Wii Fit... are they really games?

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sleeper77
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Brain Training, Wii Fit... are they really games?

Post by sleeper77 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:59 pm

This is moving on from the Western vs. Japanese gaming thread as a little discussion was going on there about this.
Brain Training, Wii Fit, Eye Training, do you see them as games or just a product aimed at casual Joe? Guitar Hero, Rock Band, would you view them as a videogame or something that should only be classed as entertainment without the word game being used.
I can understand the argument when those who believe in the traditional values of gaming and have been there during the 8 bit days see them gaining ever more popularity. They are disgusted because the software/hardware companies are trying to reach casual audiences which would not have been imaginable in the games industry back then. I too hated seeing these games or "games" supposedly aimed at casual users dominating the sales & charts. In the end, I had to accept it as it is knowing that the charts not always represent what really is best out there. Also, shock horror, companies are out there to make a profit and will continue to release clones of Brain Training or Guitar Hero since they are less of a financial risk over a game that has some originality to it and unheard of cos its not a franchise.
So what is your opinion on these games if you call them so or casual products? Me personally, I'm not bothered anymore. All it does is make me buy good games that I missed out on or never heard of in the past if nothing new doesn't appeal to me, so at least something good has come out of this and I suppose other retrogamers will be doing likewise.

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Post by ToxieDogg » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:27 pm

I do consider them games, but only in the loosest sense of the word. I've never bought into anything like Guitar Hero and don't intend to, I'd rather spend my cash on what I consider to be a 'proper' videogame that will offer variety, maybe an interesting storyline of sorts, and also test my skill properly.

I have got some 'casuals' in my collection like Brain Training, Samba De Amigo and Buzz!, but I bought these whilst I was with my ex missus as stuff we could have fun playing together or with friends over. When we split, she took Singstar and the mics, and I really wasn't sorry to see them go ;)
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Post by nesmaster » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:06 pm

I'm not sure, but they are bloody rubbish though and are the reason why i think the Wii is rubbish.

And that is coming from a big Nintendo fan :(
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Re: Brain Training, Wii Fit... are they really games?

Post by GarryG » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:22 pm

sleeper77 wrote:do you see them as games or just a product aimed at casual Joe?
Thay are games that are targeted at a wide audiance, surely that's a good thing!?
sleeper77 wrote:Guitar Hero, Rock Band, would you view them as a videogame or something that should only be classed as entertainment without the word game being used.
Nop, there defenetly video games; games played through the vodeo/visual medium.
sleeper77 wrote:I can understand the argument when those who believe in the traditional values of gaming and have been there during the 8 bit days see them gaining ever more popularity. They are disgusted because the software/hardware companies are trying to reach casual audiences which would not have been imaginable in the games industry back then.
I can't understand the argument atoll, this stuff is bringing gaming to the masses. Surely you can see that's a good thing for everybody.
I have been playing 'video games' since the TV/Games - PONG days. I am in no way 'disgusted' because games are now being produced for a wider audience; this is dispelling the 'Annoraked Geek' image of gamers.
But youre right this type of audiance numbers would have been unimaginal to the publishers 'back in the day', they could only dream of tha sales figures generated by Buzz, or Rock/Sing Starr and the like.

By the way 'Samba De Amigo' was seen as a bit of a hard-core game untill it was recently relaunched for the Wii. Personally I hope it gets the audience fugures it ritchly deserves this time round!

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Post by ToxieDogg » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:34 pm

There's nothing wrong with the Wii but there's plenty wrong with 3rd party developers and their constant stream of low budget minigame shovelware. Nearly all of Nintendo's own games, such as Excite Truck, Warioware Smooth Moves, Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 are top notch.

I see the Wii as wasted potential...now and then Nintendo release a great game which shows what is possible with a bit of time and care, but other developers continue to churn out low budget shovelware/minigame crap because the audience is there and it makes them a quick buck.

The Wii is still my favourite console though...the games that are good are GREAT, and there are better games for download on the VC than either XBLA or the Playstation Network.
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Post by Antiriad2097 » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:33 am

Wii Fit isn't a game, though it does have a couple of minigames tagged on.

Its core is fitness/exercise routines which are as tedious as you'd expect, especially when you consider there's no score to compare and its single player only so there isn't any competition at all.

The others are all games.
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Re: Brain Training, Wii Fit... are they really games?

Post by Opa-Opa » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:47 am

GarryG wrote:
sleeper77 wrote:Guitar Hero, Rock Band, would you view them as a videogame or something that should only be classed as entertainment without the word game being used.
Nop, there defenetly video games; games played through the vodeo/visual medium.
There are not games.
Just because they are run using a video/visual medium.
You could say that audio books were music using this type of description, it comes on a CD and is played via an audio system therefore it must be music...

Is the classic game Simon a Video game..?
It has a big lump of plastic with large coloured buttons that need to be pressed in the right order which is all these type of program are...

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Post by ShadowMan » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:22 am

ToxieDogg wrote:There's nothing wrong with the Wii but there's plenty wrong with 3rd party developers and their constant stream of low budget minigame shovelware. Nearly all of Nintendo's own games, such as Excite Truck, Warioware Smooth Moves, Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 are top notch.

I see the Wii as wasted potential...now and then Nintendo release a great game which shows what is possible with a bit of time and care, but other developers continue to churn out low budget shovelware/minigame crap because the audience is there and it makes them a quick buck.

The Wii is still my favourite console though...the games that are good are GREAT, and there are better games for download on the VC than either XBLA or the Playstation Network.
I agree with everything you put, for every worthwhile 3rd party release there must be at least 10 examples of crap that gets released on the system. The DS has a similar problem when it comes to 3rd party shovelware from companies trying to make a quick buck.
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Re: Brain Training, Wii Fit... are they really games?

Post by Coopdevil » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:08 am

Opa-Opa wrote: Is the classic game Simon a Video game..?
It has a big lump of plastic with large coloured buttons that need to be pressed in the right order which is all these type of program are...
Simon or Shenmue? :wink:

I doubt you'll ever get a proper definition of what is a game, what isn't a game. Is a game a game if you're not playing it for score/progress as the designer intended but just mucking about with it, e.g. driving the wrong way in a racing game just to set up big crashes?

I do a fair bit of slotcar racing at club level (Scalextric and more sophisticated stuff) and arguments have raged for years as to whether the sophisticated level is a "sport". Admittedly much of the argument behind "it is a sport" is in the interests of getting Sport England funding.

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Post by SirClive » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:35 am

Brain Training is a game. It is against the clock and gives a score (not a definitive definition, but you get where I am coming from).
Just cos thicko's can't play them doesn't mean they are not a game.

Wii Fit itself isn't a game, but it does incorporate games within it.
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Post by nesmaster » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:42 am

ToxieDogg wrote:There's nothing wrong with the Wii but there's plenty wrong with 3rd party developers and their constant stream of low budget minigame shovelware. Nearly all of Nintendo's own games, such as Excite Truck, Warioware Smooth Moves, Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 are top notch.

I see the Wii as wasted potential...now and then Nintendo release a great game which shows what is possible with a bit of time and care, but other developers continue to churn out low budget shovelware/minigame crap because the audience is there and it makes them a quick buck.

The Wii is still my favourite console though...the games that are good are GREAT, and there are better games for download on the VC than either XBLA or the Playstation Network.
I disagree with you on that mate. Although there are some great VC games, Nintendo hasn't even bothered to include leaderboards and online play on them. And why couldn't they give us 60hz versions of the games?
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Post by Opa-Opa » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:50 am

SirClive wrote:Brain Training is a game. It is against the clock and gives a score (not a definitive definition, but you get where I am coming from).
Just cos thicko's can't play them doesn't mean they are not a game.
This is funny, the pap like Brian training is made to make money FROM the thickies who can't get to grips with real games... :lol:

Nintendo:- "can you work out which button does what in Mario..?"
Non-gamer:- "Dur... NOPE!!"

Nintendo:- "Right, well you have a go at this then" 1+1= ..?
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Post by Team Alfie » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:00 am

Brain Training actually works very well as a video game. You've got high scores to try and beat everyday for a start.

Guitar Hero and Rock Band are games, but Um Jammer Lammy is far better as a video game with a proper narrative and levels, as well as original songs instead of licenced Metallica and Guns N' Roses tracks. If an Um Jammer Lammy sequel was released with a guitar peripheral, those other games would be dead to me.
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Post by C=Style » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:12 am

Yes of course they are games. In the same way Battle Chess on Amiga, Tetris or Civilisation is. They are games played through a video format. Making them video games. It really is quite simple.
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Post by Opa-Opa » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:26 am

C=Style wrote:Yes of course they are games. In the same way Battle Chess on Amiga, Tetris or Civilisation is. They are games played through a video format. Making them video games. It really is quite simple.
I think your being simple...
How on earth is Brain training anything like Battle Chess on the Amiga or Tetris..?

It's not, not even slightly.

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