Page 6 of 13

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:25 am
by Szczepaniak
First, I've not seen the current issue, so am replying to things based on my original unedited draft.
Super King wrote:He should leave the Afrikaans to actual Afrikaners.
About the Afrikaans mistake, fair point. Ek is baie jammer, maar dit was nie nodig om dit te ŝe nie. :)

I haven't spoken it regularly in 12 years and so am a little rusty. I probably should have checked with relatives (who are fluent), but hey, deadlines etc. Crikey, it feels like I'm back in school at the front of the class again, trying to remember vocabulary. Give an ex-pat a break, you should be happy I'm giving the language some page time, which is more than what most other people would do!


Also, regarding "glaring omissions", I make no apologies for that. I have something like 1200 words to cover everything, and I'm getting a little tired of constantly being told I never included everything. Yeah, I'm well aware of the gameboy situation, and everything else. But look at your lengthy posts, they're almost as long as the article itself!

What do you people want from me? For these articles to become a 300 page tome written in blood?

Also, I think you totally misunderstood what I was saying with regards to PAL gaming. I know SA is a PAL region, I say as much. But despite this, and due to various restrictions, there has always been a strong grey import market. As for being asked about USA/JPN Megadrives, this happened to me at North Gate shopping centre, back in the early 90s. The arrival of the PS1, which was marketed strongly, I'm told took away a lot of the wind from the grey import market. Hence my wording it as "cemented the country as a PAL region". In that, while it always was PAL, the products available weren't necessarily PAL. You see what I was doing there? Highlighting an unusual market anomaly, which changed when gaming become more mainstream.


I should add, what I wrote about was what I saw living in Johannesburg, it may have been different elsewhere in the country.


As for the ZX Spectrum, I'd NEVER seen or heard of one while living there, and only heard about them when I moved to England. Also, all of the people who I spoke to, didn't mention it either, and I specifically asked about home computers in case it was just me who missed them. Everyone I spoke to (aged between 20 to mid 30s) said they never saw them, and the only mentions I got were of the C64. Which I did mention, in relation to that shmup remake which by a C64 enthusiast in South Africa.

I am well aware that the Spectrum was popular everywhere from Russia to Brazil, but in my real-life travels in SA, and contact with people, I found literally NO EVIDENCE of it existing there. Which proves to me it couldn't have been as popular as you say.


I also contacted people at NAG magazine, who shared THEIR retro experiences, which I found to be nearly identical to mine.

So, when everyone I speak to, including staff at one of SA's leading magazines, recall events almost exactly as I recall them, I obviously assume I'm on the right track. I mean, that's a reasonable assumption to make, right?!

What I wrote IS correct in terms of me having experienced everything. Now, I'm sure that my personal experiences won't be identical to everyone else’s, but this article was NOT poorly researched. It was a more personal reflective GG than normal, and it was backed up by several others who I spoke to. I'd argue it was very well researched, with things seen first hand. Plus, I've had people privately contact me to say how happy they were with it, and how it reflected THEIR experiences perfectly.

The South Africa, as well as Polish Global Gaming articles, were the two that I was most satisfied with, since I knew those places better than anywhere else.


Still, it should please people to know that Global Gaming won't be in the next issue of RG.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go take a va

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:27 am
by revgiblet
bolda wrote:
Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:Anyway, you'll be pleased to hear that a moon on a stick is being given away with issue 24. It's obviously what everyone wants :lol:
Don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful for all the hard work you guys put into producing articles for the mag (hence the positive comments that opened my earlier post) but I see the feedback thread as a tool for continual improvement, as well as back-patting!... Hopefully there are equal amounts of both in my comments! :D
I agree. All I was saying (and it sounds to me like all others were saying) was "Great issue. It's a shame the God games article only skimmed the surface though". I don't want the moon on a stick. Where would I put it? I'm not allowed to buy a Dreamcast because of lack of space. My wife would go absolutely mental if I turned up with the moon on a stick.

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:32 am
by Szczepaniak
Second post due to the length of the first
A more thoroughly researched piece would have better represented the true history of the rise of video gaming in South Africa.
Now the above is simply incorrect. What I wrote DID represent the true history, albeit only a slice of it. A part of the history that I knew, and about a dozen other people knew and agreed with me on. And I think all of them would disagree with you on the above point.

Does anyone realise just how much effort GG takes? It takes at least twice as much effort and time as any other article, sometimes more. I liason with between 3 to sometimes 10 other people, asking questions, chatting on MSN, sending emails back and forth, starting new forum accounts on forums from another country, PHONING people in foreign countries, and then trying to squeeze that into a limited space. I don't know why I bother writing it, because it would be easier to cover other subjects.

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:36 am
by VinnyM
Szczepaniak wrote:First, I've not seen the current issue, so am replying to things based on my original unedited draft.

About the Afrikaans mistake, fair point, I apologise. I haven't spoken it regularly in 12 years and so am a little rusty. I probably should have checked with relatives (who are fluent), but hey, deadlines etc. Crikey, it feels like I'm back in school at the front of the class again, trying to remember vocabulary. Give an ex-pat a break. :)


Also, regarding "glaring omissions", I make no apologies for that. I have something like 1200 words to cover everything, and I'm getting a little tired of constantly being told I never included everything. Yeah, I'm well aware of the gameboy situation, and everything else. But look at your lengthy posts, they're almost as long as the article itself!

What do you people want from me? For these articles to become a 300 page tome written in blood?

Also, I think you totally misunderstood what I was saying with regards to PAL gaming. I know SA is a PAL region, I say as much. But despite this, and due to various restrictions, there has always been a strong grey import market. As for being asked about USA/JPN Megadrives, this happened to me at North Gate shopping centre, back in the early 90s. The arrival of the PS1, which was marketed strongly, I'm told took away a lot of the wind from the grey import market. Hence my wording it as "cemented the country as a PAL region". In that, while it always was PAL, the products available weren't necessarily PAL. You see what I was doing there? Highlighting an unusual market anomaly, which changed when gaming become more mainstream.


I should add, what I wrote about was what I saw living in Johannesburg, it may have been different elsewhere in the country.


As for the ZX Spectrum, I'd NEVER seen or heard of one while living there, and only heard about them when I moved to England. Also, all of the people who I spoke to, didn't mention it either, and I specifically asked about home computers in case it was just me who missed them. Everyone I spoke to (aged between 20 to mid 30s) said they never saw them, and the only mentions I got were of the C64. Which I did mention, in relation to that shmup remake which by a C64 enthusiast in South Africa.

I am well aware that the Spectrum was popular everywhere from Russia to Brazil, but in my real-life travels in SA, and contact with people, I found literally NO EVIDENCE of it existing there. Which proves to me it couldn't have been as popular as you say.


I also contacted people at NAG magazine, who shared THEIR retro experiences, which I found to be nearly identical to mine.

So, when everyone I speak to, including staff at one of SA's leading magazines, recall events almost exactly as I recall them, I obviously assume I'm on the right track. I mean, that's a reasonable assumption to make, right?!

What I wrote IS correct in terms of me having experienced everything. Now, I'm sure that my personal experiences won't be identical to everyone else’s, but this article was NOT poorly researched. It was a more personal reflective GG than normal, and it was backed up by several others who I spoke to. I'd argue it was very well researched, with things seen first hand. Plus, I've had people privately contact me to say how happy they were with it, and how it reflected THEIR experiences perfectly.

The South Africa, as well as Polish Global Gaming articles, were the two that I was most satisfied with, since I knew those places better than anywhere else.


Still, it should please people to know that Global Gaming won't be in the next issue of RG.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go take a vacation.
I'll get your coat ;)

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:41 am
by DonkeySpank
Szczepaniak wrote:I don't know why I bother writing it, because it would be easier to cover other subjects.
Well, for what it's worth, I think this is a unique take on the retro gaming "thing" and it's worth continuing.

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:42 am
by craigritchie
Szczepaniak wrote:Lots of words.
Hey John, first off, apologies about all the schtick you're getting for this, and I am well aware of the frustrations that a limited word-count can impose on one's writing.

Also, what you say about thoroughly researching, I respect that too, and I guess I can retract some of what I said. From the sound of your post, you put a lot of time in and spoke to a fair amount of people about it. Still, the Spectrum was alive and well in South Africa during this time period - maybe it was a Cape thing, though. I grew up between Cape Town and Port Elizabeth, and knew a good number of people who owned Spectrums. It was the first popular home computer in the country, as far as I can remember. PC's were still exceptionally expensive, BBC and Commodore machines were around but also very rarely, and nearly everyone else seemed to go for a Famiclone.

As for NAG, they are the only gaming magazine in the country, and as far as I am concerned, a lot of their writing is of an appalling quality. Still, I don't want to turn this thread into a flamewar... not at all, trust me. I just don't think the guys from NAG are necessarily authorities on the topic of retro gaming. More a bunch of Playstation generation guys who snatched the gap in the SA market to produce the only gaming mag there is. (Perhaps my long-winded first post should have been in a thread by itself...)

But like I said, and I wanted to emphasise this, you captured a lot of the old South African gaming scene very well, but there were a few things I felt I had to comment on once I finished reading it, and that is what I did.

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:42 am
by hobgoblin
Does anyone realise just how much effort GG takes? It takes at least twice as much effort and time as any other article, sometimes more. I liason with between 3 to sometimes 10 other people, asking questions, chatting on MSN, sending emails back and forth, starting new forum accounts on forums from another country, PHONING people in foreign countries, and then trying to squeeze that into a limited space. I don't know why I bother writing it, because it would be easier to cover other subjects.
Not a big fan of criticism, eh?

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:56 am
by Szczepaniak
craigritchie wrote:
Szczepaniak wrote:Lots of words.
Response to words.
Cool, no problem. :)

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:28 am
by revgiblet
hobgoblin wrote:
Does anyone realise just how much effort GG takes? It takes at least twice as much effort and time as any other article, sometimes more. I liason with between 3 to sometimes 10 other people, asking questions, chatting on MSN, sending emails back and forth, starting new forum accounts on forums from another country, PHONING people in foreign countries, and then trying to squeeze that into a limited space. I don't know why I bother writing it, because it would be easier to cover other subjects.
Not a big fan of criticism, eh?
I have to say, in John's defence, that the criticism he's had has been some of the most aggressive and comprehensive I've seen on this forum. I guess that's because he's been writing about situations that are going to strike a personal chord with people.

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:28 am
by retro mania
I think the global gaming feature is as good as ever its nice get a picture of what gaming was/is like in another country.

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:44 am
by Weblaus
Well, another empty mailbox day for me...

Has any non-UK-subscriber received issue #23 yet?

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:52 am
by Ash
Weblaus wrote:Well, another empty mailbox day for me...

Has any non-UK-subscriber received issue #23 yet?
I'm an inland subscriber but haven't received mine yet.

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:05 pm
by craigritchie
revgiblet wrote: I have to say, in John's defence, that the criticism he's had has been some of the most aggressive and comprehensive I've seen on this forum. I guess that's because he's been writing about situations that are going to strike a personal chord with people.
Yeah, I guess "blatant innaccuracies" was a bit harsh. But hey, I'd just read the article and was fuelled up... you know how it is. John, your work succeeded in starting us talking, and that's a good thing. Just have some fond memories from that time, and some of mine contradicted with what I read. But doing that kind of thing with a serious word limitation is going to get some responses like these (hell, that's probably the most common cause of criticism you can expect to receive writing about these sort of topics). And for sure, as I mentioned above, there was great stuff in there too. Big ups for mentioning that we call it 'TV games'!

Hey, getting harsh feedback from your piece is better than writing something no one gives a damn about!

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:02 pm
by Weblaus
Ash wrote:
Weblaus wrote:Well, another empty mailbox day for me...

Has any non-UK-subscriber received issue #23 yet?
I'm an inland subscriber but haven't received mine yet.
Oof, that's not nice. Well, here's hoping we all finally get it tomorrow... (crosses fingers)

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:23 pm
by helloall
Good issue this month lads - Old little moans aside.

Great to see the Saturn Schmups rated, tiny complaint being the "Sizzler" award all over the screenshots especially Battle Garegga.

SNES Article was great, more concise than many system reviews - Brought me back to the SNES/Megadrive wars from yesteryear.

God games needed more coverage - 6 Pages is alot if it was a single game but not to cover the genre.

It's an idea for future specials editions though, I know I'd buy a nice "one off" mag dedicated to a specific type of game.

I can see it now:

Retro Gamer Special - A History of *place genre here*