Issue 23 Feedback

Want to air your opinions on the latest issue of Retro Gamer? Step inside...

Moderators: mknott, NickThorpe, lcarlson, Darran@Retro Gamer, MMohammed

Post Reply
User avatar
Super King
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:33 am

Post by Super King » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:13 am

Also, the phrase "volgende KEUR" is spelled incorrectly. It should be "volgende KEER". As it stands, John will see you "next selection" instead of "next time". He should leave the Afrikaans to actual Afrikaners.
Last edited by Super King on Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'd rather be rich than stupid.

User avatar
craigritchie
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:20 pm
Location: South Africa

Post by craigritchie » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:14 am

(Continued from previous page)
As for walking into a store and being asked by a salesman "you want American?! You want Japanese?", I don't really know what that's about. Never happened to me, or anyone I know.

Also, South Africa had PAL as standard long before the PlayStation arrived. South Africa's television and electrical standards are all based on those of the United Kingdom - we had PAL TV's, PAL video machines, and the same electrical current - but instead of the 'square' metal pins on plugs in the UK, ours were rounded. One simple converter was all that was required - all the video leads etc just plugged straight in to our TVs. Sure, John may have been talking in terms of PAL as a gaming standard, but here too, I would say that PAL was the standard well before Sony's console dominated the home gaming market, and legitimised gaming as a South Afican pastime. Our NES, Mega Drives, Master Systems, SNES etc were all PAL as well.

The article also failed to mention the abundance of the ZX Spectrum, which was all over the place in the mid to late 80's, and sales continued through to the early nineties. It was a cheap system, also marketed on TV and national press, and had a good following for a number of years.

Nintendo's Game & Watch systems also featured quite prominently during the 80's, as well as numerous no-name-brand systems of similar games... brightly coloured plastic handhelds with LCD-screens featuring games of 'jump over this' or 'dodge that' entertained many a South African youngster on long holiday car trips.

There’s more I could write, but this post is long enough already (so long it had to be split into two posts!). Granted, the limitations of space means that many things have to be left out of pretty much every article that gets run (every nostalgic gamer will complain about his favourite title not being mentioned in a developer lookback, or a feature such as this issue's article on God games). Still, some things struck me as being inaccurately reported.

So, the article was good, it covered much of the South African scene during the 80’s and early 90’s, but given Retro Gamer’s status in the world of classic gaming, a more thoroughly researched piece would have better represented the true history of the rise of video gaming in South Africa.

User avatar
RandySparks
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:44 am

Re:

Post by RandySparks » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:22 am

merman wrote:Do you see that as a problem with the article then?
:shock:
I just assumed that in the process of reseaching an article, you'd plug any gaps in your knowledge (ie play some of the important games you've never played, or can't quite remember), in order to present a more balanced overview.

To omit games because you don't think they are relevant is one thing. But to omit games because you personally haven't played them seems strange. To me at least.

User avatar
bolda
Posts: 1128
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:53 am
Location: World 1-1

Re:

Post by bolda » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:00 am

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:Anyway, you'll be pleased to hear that a moon on a stick is being given away with issue 24. It's obviously what everyone wants :lol:
Hey Darran, that's a nice shirt you're wearing, could I have that too? :D

Merman, I'd highly recommend you try Utopia from Gremlin Graphics - I love the ST version, nice graphics, engrossing gameplay and a superb Baz Leitch (sp?) soundtrack!

I can see how your article concentrated on games which are literally "God" games and the article itself "evolved" from one game to the next. I'd certainly mention MegaLoMania in the same terms as Civilisation - the game evolves from the stone age, through the iron age into the industrial age and finishes with futuristic technology.

Your article also mentioned Sim City, and for me, Utopia is like Sim City in the future (kind of like a precursor to Sim City 3000). It involves building up a colony on a new planet and fending off hostile enemies. This is a similar theme to games like "Millenium 2.2", "Deuteros" and "Supremacy" which also involve building an space-faring "empire" from humble beginnings.

As a general comment, articles which cover a whole genre would perhaps benefit from a double-page spread of classic games in that genre - much like that which accompanies computer/console articles like the SNES article... just a screenshot and a brief description of 10 games or so. This might introduce people to classic games they'd never played which are similar to games they have encountered before.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful for all the hard work you guys put into producing articles for the mag (hence the positive comments that opened my earlier post) but I see the feedback thread as a tool for continual improvement, as well as back-patting!... Hopefully there are equal amounts of both in my comments! :D
GAME OVER YEEEAAAHHH!
ImageImageImage

User avatar
merman
Posts: 6497
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:14 pm
Location: Skegness, UK
Contact:

Re:

Post by merman » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:02 am

RandySparks wrote:
merman wrote:Do you see that as a problem with the article then?
:shock:
I just assumed that in the process of reseaching an article, you'd plug any gaps in your knowledge (ie play some of the important games you've never played, or can't quite remember), in order to present a more balanced overview.

To omit games because you don't think they are relevant is one thing. But to omit games because you personally haven't played them seems strange. To me at least.
I do TRY to play as many games as I can while researching an article - a good example would be EVO Search for Eden that I "discovered" while writing the article in issue 23, I'd never heard of it before and put in many hours to get a good feeling for the game.

It comes down to that word BALANCE again - balancing the number of games mentioned against the depth of comment, the space in the article versus the number of games of that type, and so on.
merman1974 on Steam, Xbox Live, Twitter and YouTube

User avatar
Ash
Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:52 am
Location: Bournemouth
Contact:

Re:

Post by Ash » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:03 am

Super King wrote:Also, the phrase "volgende KEUR" is spelled incorrectly. It should be "volgende KEER". As it stands, John will see you "next selection" instead of "next time". He should leave the Afrikaans to actual Afrikaners.
HO HO! Wait until he sees that. I suspect John just made a simple spelling mistake as I would imagine that his Afrikaans is actually very good considering his heritage.
Last edited by Ash on Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ash
Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:52 am
Location: Bournemouth
Contact:

Re:

Post by Ash » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:05 am

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:Anyway, you'll be pleased to hear that a moon on a stick is being given away with issue 24. It's obviously what everyone wants :lol:
How about a free box of Golden Grahams? ;)

User avatar
CraigGrannell
Posts: 4734
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:15 am
Contact:

Re:

Post by CraigGrannell » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:07 am

bolda wrote:I see the feedback thread as a tool for continual improvement, as well as back-patting!
On a serious note, this should always be the case (and I agree that your posts have a good balance in terms of comments). A constant barrage of bile (which rarely, if ever, happens here)—destructive criticism, if you will, is of no use to anyone, but non-constructive praise, while nice to receive now and again, isn't that helpful either. Constructive criticism, both negative and positive, based on considered thoughts (rather than knee-jerk reactions, which again are pretty rare on this forum) is what enables a publication such as Retro Gamer to grow and develop. It's great to see readers here getting involved in providing said feedback—I've worked on mags in the past where almost no communication occurred with the buyers, and it's a strange and somewhat depressing environment to work in.
iPhone/iPod/iPad game/app reviews: http://www.iphonetiny.com

User avatar
merman
Posts: 6497
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:14 pm
Location: Skegness, UK
Contact:

Post by merman » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:08 am

Thanks for your comment bolda, and ironically I have now played Utopia in the process of researching my next article :wink:

Now for my general feelings on issue 23 as a reader...

I loved it. The SNES article was fanastic (good work Ash!), the Desert Island Disks with Malcolm Evans was good reading and the three Making Ofs were also nicely done. Good to read about Palace Software as well.
merman1974 on Steam, Xbox Live, Twitter and YouTube

User avatar
Ash
Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:52 am
Location: Bournemouth
Contact:

Re:

Post by Ash » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:11 am

merman wrote: I loved it. The SNES article was fanastic (good work Ash)
Try telling that to the guys over at RLLMUK. ;) They apparantly knew that the article would be rubbish before they'd even read it. Ho hum.

User avatar
sloragoth
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:08 am

Post by sloragoth » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:11 am

yeah!you go Craig!
the night was...dry,yet it was raining.

hobgoblin
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:57 am

Re:

Post by hobgoblin » Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:07 am

craigritchie wrote:(Continued from previous page)
As for walking into a store and being asked by a salesman "you want American?! You want Japanese?", I don't really know what that's about. Never happened to me, or anyone I know.

Also, South Africa had PAL as standard long before the PlayStation arrived. South Africa's television and electrical standards are all based on those of the United Kingdom - we had PAL TV's, PAL video machines, and the same electrical current - but instead of the 'square' metal pins on plugs in the UK, ours were rounded. One simple converter was all that was required - all the video leads etc just plugged straight in to our TVs. Sure, John may have been talking in terms of PAL as a gaming standard, but here too, I would say that PAL was the standard well before Sony's console dominated the home gaming market, and legitimised gaming as a South Afican pastime. Our NES, Mega Drives, Master Systems, SNES etc were all PAL as well.

The article also failed to mention the abundance of the ZX Spectrum, which was all over the place in the mid to late 80's, and sales continued through to the early nineties. It was a cheap system, also marketed on TV and national press, and had a good following for a number of years.

Nintendo's Game & Watch systems also featured quite prominently during the 80's, as well as numerous no-name-brand systems of similar games... brightly coloured plastic handhelds with LCD-screens featuring games of 'jump over this' or 'dodge that' entertained many a South African youngster on long holiday car trips.

There’s more I could write, but this post is long enough already (so long it had to be split into two posts!). Granted, the limitations of space means that many things have to be left out of pretty much every article that gets run (every nostalgic gamer will complain about his favourite title not being mentioned in a developer lookback, or a feature such as this issue's article on God games). Still, some things struck me as being inaccurately reported.

So, the article was good, it covered much of the South African scene during the 80’s and early 90’s, but given Retro Gamer’s status in the world of classic gaming, a more thoroughly researched piece would have better represented the true history of the rise of video gaming in South Africa.
There are some good points here that I feel goes back t my eariler post. Looking through this forum, Global Gaming seems to have had problems with accuracy for a few issues. Is this down to problems trying to make each month at least a little different to the last, when ultimately everthing has been said?
As craigritchie points out, (and I apologise for picking on this regular in particular - thats not my intention at all, I promise) if there was a Spectrum market in South Africa, wouldn't that have been of particular interest to English readers? There is seldom any mention of computers in GG, just consoles.
I honestly enjoyed GG earlier on, but like several regular columns, how much more is there to say about consoles in other countries before it becomes either repetition or conjecture for the sake of saying something different.
Retro Gamer should think seriously about its regulars before it becomes the same read every month.
Once again, apologies for criticising, but I am trying to be constructive.

User avatar
bolda
Posts: 1128
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:53 am
Location: World 1-1

Re:

Post by bolda » Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:09 am

merman wrote:Thanks for your comment bolda, and ironically I have now played Utopia in the process of researching my next article :wink:
Great stuff, I hope you liked it! So, what is your next article on? Gremlin Graphics? More on the God game genre? Or is it Top Secret and we have to wait until it's published??? :wink:

Some more feedback on issue 23 - which I'm still only part way through! I loved the article on Level 2 of Gunstar Heroes. For a while I've been thinking of suggesting a "regular" article on "Wow Factor" moments in video games, so it looks like you read my mind! I've enjoyed the "End Game" articles which have always been a regular and it occurred to me that there are many classic "moments" within games, before you get to the end of the game, so this covers them nicely. Hopefully this will become a regular feature? I'm sure everyone on here has their favourite "wow" moments from games! :D The Gunstar Heroes moment is certainly one of mine!

Perhaps it would even be possible to capture the "moment" in an mpeg and make it available on the RG website (now that we no longer have the coverdisc for this kind of thing), the same goes for the "End Game" feature... in fact, that leads to a whole other debate on adding content to the RG website which is related to the current issue... just a thought!

Cheers,

Andy
GAME OVER YEEEAAAHHH!
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Ash
Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:52 am
Location: Bournemouth
Contact:

Re:

Post by Ash » Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:26 am

hobgoblin wrote: There are some good points here that I feel goes back t my eariler post. Looking through this forum, Global Gaming seems to have had problems with accuracy for a few issues. Is this down to problems trying to make each month at least a little different to the last, when ultimately everthing has been said?.
One important aspect that has to be taken into account with Global Gaming is that a complete picture of a single country is impossible (especially in 2 pages). One person's experience of a country could be completely different to someone else's, even if they have lived there for as long as eachother. Some countries will have regional differences too. Take Britain for example, Londoners might say that Britain has a thriving arcade scene whilst someone in Bradford (for example) would say the exact opposite. Likewise, if you live near a lot of shops that specialises in imports then you might believe that Brits play loads of Japanese games - but not everyone would agree with you.

I studied Film History at University and if I only learnt one important lesson, it's that there's no such thing as a universal truth. The Global Gaming articles should (in my opinion) be read as a snapshot of that country's retro gaming landscape and not a defintive account. That would take up an entire book for each country.

hobgoblin
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:57 am

Re:

Post by hobgoblin » Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:11 am

Ash wrote:
hobgoblin wrote: There are some good points here that I feel goes back t my eariler post. Looking through this forum, Global Gaming seems to have had problems with accuracy for a few issues. Is this down to problems trying to make each month at least a little different to the last, when ultimately everthing has been said?.
One important aspect that has to be taken into account with Global Gaming is that a complete picture of a single country is impossible (especially in 2 pages). One person's experience of a country could be completely different to someone else's, even if they have lived there for as long as eachother. Some countries will have regional differences too. Take Britain for example, Londoners might say that Britain has a thriving arcade scene whilst someone in Bradford (for example) would say the exact opposite. Likewise, if you live near a lot of shops that specialises in imports then you might believe that Brits play loads of Japanese games - but not everyone would agree with you.

I studied Film History at University and if I only learnt one important lesson, it's that there's no such thing as a universal truth. The Global Gaming articles should (in my opinion) be read as a snapshot of that country's retro gaming landscape and not a defintive account. That would take up an entire book for each country.
Indeed - well said.
But my point wasn't so much that each country is being inadequately summarised, its just that each snapshot seems to be the same as the last. Its like Retro Gamer is touring the world and only taking a picture of itself outside a Macdonalds in each country.
You are right about it being impossible to cover an entire country in 2 pages, of course. Perhaps, if this regular is something RG is going to keep limping along for a while yet, concentrating on a different specific aspect of a country's retro gaming landscape (I like that phrase, by the way :)) would refresh an otherwise stale article, instead of just telling us about Nintendo all the time?
Also, another thing you mentioned bears consideration - if a country can't be summed up in two pages, perhaps that is an inherant problem with the idea, which makes it ultimately flawed?
How does it work, by the way? Does RG find a local writer to the country in question and ask them specific questions about it, or is it all based on internet research?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests