Issue 49 "Beat 'Em Up" special confusing, disappoi

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bigfreakypossum
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Issue 49 "Beat 'Em Up" special confusing, disappoi

Post by bigfreakypossum » Tue May 13, 2008 3:57 am

* I sometimes spell "beat 'em ups" as "bemups" because "beat 'em ups" is too much work to type. It'll eventually catch on, like shmups. Probably.
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I know I haven't posted on here in a long time, but I really felt I had to say something about this.

I picked up issue 49 a couple of weeks ago, and I was really excited about the beat 'em up article because that's very nearly my favorite genre of games. I lived in the arcades in the late 80's/early 90's and you could play two types of games: shmups and bemups... that was it.

When I flipped to the contents page I saw that it was a top 25, and I was wondering hmm, what will be in the top 5? Surely Final Fight, Golden Axe, and Double Dragon will round out the top 3 (in whatever order).

Then I noticed the picture of Garou. That's strange. I flipped to the article, flipped through it several times to make sure that I'm not crazy, and confirmed that it contained exactly zero bemups. Not even one. It only contained fighting games. To be more exact, it was a list with 23 fighting games, a wrestling game, and Mike Tyson's Punchout.

Don't get me wrong, I like fighting games quite a bit, but fighting games aren't bemups. Okay, there are a handful that blur the line like Street Smarts and Pit Fighter, but for the most part they are two distinct genres of games. Mistaking a fighting game for a bemup is casual gamer mistake, like calling a rail shooter an FPS or a run'n'gun a shmup. I expected better of Retrogamer.

Then I thought hey, it's a British magazine, maybe they call fighting games beat 'em ups, and have a different word for beat 'em ups. Sort of like what we call fries you guys call chips, and what we call chips you call crisps. But then I read the Retrobates section and saw references to Double Dragon and Splatterhouse 3, which are unquestionably bemups. I can only guess the rest of staff knows what bemups are, thought it really was going to be an article about that genre, and only the author was confused.

What the hell happened here?
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Post by The Universal » Tue May 13, 2008 5:19 am

I dare say RG were focussing on literal genre titles rather than the specialist sub genre titles given to different areas of games by hardcore elements. Titles that are relevant to the many rather than the few.

The games that you are referring to are widely regarded as scrolling beat em ups, and as such do not meet the criteria of the chart.

It is however likely that Final Fight would make a top 25 scrolling beat em up chart, so dont despair.

Language nuances eh? Looking forward to the Klingon and Latin specials that may or may not be coming soon or indeed mean anything to the average reader.
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Post by Spooky » Tue May 13, 2008 6:09 am

I made the same remark to myself when I read the article... but I thought "Well, my definition of beat'em up isn't the right one apparently". :wink:

But you can't really have clear-cut distinctions, or else you end up like many bands who claim to have their own musical genre, with hundreds of different types that always get me confused... Beat'em up or Fighting game, it's true there's not a big difference.

But since you're apparently a big fan of "horizontal scrolling beat'em ups", who is your top 10? I love this type of games too, Final Fight being my favourite, followed closely by Double Dragon. :wink:
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Post by bigfreakypossum » Tue May 13, 2008 7:00 am

The Universal wrote:I dare say RG were focussing on literal genre titles rather than the specialist sub genre titles given to different areas of games by hardcore elements. Titles that are relevant to the many rather than the few.
It's not a sub-genre, they're different types of games. Bemups are almost closer in gameplay to action RPGs than they are to fighting games. I'd say that Guardian Heroes is more similar to Diablo II than it is to Soul Calibur.

This is a much more recognizable fact than you're giving it credit for. Here's a simple test I did. I took a casual gamer (my girlfriend, who mostly plays Mario Kart Wii and Halo 3) and asked her about the two games, each of which are the most recognized and perfect examples of these two generally very distinct genres:

"Are Street Fighter 2 and Double Dragon the same type of game?"

"No."

Spooky wrote: But since you're apparently a big fan of "horizontal scrolling beat'em ups", who is your top 10? I love this type of games too, Final Fight being my favourite, followed closely by Double Dragon. :wink:
Bemups aren't even necessarily horizontally scrolling. Most are top-down, or 3/4 angled top-down, and 3D beat'em'ups are sometimes from a fixed camera angle, or a little more rarely from a chase-camera behind the character.


Anyways my top 10 favorite games that definitely aren't fighting games:

10. Golden Axe/arcade/genesis
Mostly for nostalgia. It's fun to beat on gnomes.

9. Marvel Ultimate Alliance/x360/ps3/wii/ps2
Bordering on action-RPG, but the RPG element is so dumbed down it doesn't even count. Lots of heroes, lots of villains, lots fun.

8. Sword Of Berzerk: Gut's Rage/dc
Intensely violent, big sword, good story.

7. No More Heroes/wii
Awesome style, fun story, very violent and Tarantino-esque. Little bit of a pseudo-adventure element that reminds me of the next game on my list...

6. River City Ransom/NES
It's like Double Dragon, with all kinds of food and items that boost stats to help you kick butt down at the high school.

5. Conan/x360
Feels like a spiritual successor to Sword Of Berzerk. Arguably the most violent game ever made, you can even rip your opponents intestines out with your bare hands.

4. Knights Of The Round/arcade/snes
Probably the bemup that I have dumped the most money into. Leveling up the characters is awesome, they get cooler looking throughout the game.

3. Tie: Streets Of Rage 2 & 3/genesis
Oddly enough, I think the original game kind of sucks.

2. Battle Circuit/arcade
I bet you thought I was going to say Double Dragon. I lost some love for that game when I discovered I could walk through it on one quarter using only elbows and headbutts.

Battle Circuit is weird and awesome. And I mean, really, it is weird. Makes Captain Commando seem almost normal. And you can use your points to buy new moves.

1. Final Fight/arcade/sega cd/snes
Long before Grand Theft Anything, I was beating hookers to death with a lead pipe and eating roast beef I found in the trashcan. Good times, good times.

*** Honorable mentions:

Alien vs. Predator, Punisher, Cadillacs And Dinosaurs, Dungeons & Dragons: Shadows Of Mystara, uh, anything by Capcom I guess, the Sengoku games, the Dynasty/Samurai Warrior games, Guardian Heroes
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Post by CraigGrannell » Tue May 13, 2008 7:11 am

The Universal wrote:I dare say RG were focussing on literal genre titles rather than the specialist sub genre titles given to different areas of games by hardcore elements.
It's possibly, as has been somewhat suggested, also down to the fact that one-one-one fighting games have long been referred to as 'beat 'em ups' in Britain (and this was especially the case in the 1980s), with the 'scrolling' identifier added for Double Dragon-style games onwards.
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Post by C=Style » Tue May 13, 2008 8:48 am

I still call any one on one fighter "beat em up's" but slowly I'm using the term "fighters" to describe them as people think you're a bit weird using the term, kinda like how people have laughed at me when I've called a controller a "joypad", damn Americanism's!
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Post by EvilArmourKing » Tue May 13, 2008 9:47 am

Today is the only day (other than when I'm dead), that I honestly couldn't win a single match on any fighting game.

Tekken, Killer Instinct, Mortal Kombat 2, King of Fighters - All becasue I have been up, straight, for the last 37 hours.

Other than the part of the brain the deals with "self awareness", everything else is trying to shut down, well, that's certainly how it feels.

And my eyes, coupled with the headache I have, means that I am on the verge of literally passing out!


Arggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Post by psj3809 » Tue May 13, 2008 9:56 am

How come you've been up for 37 hours straight ?!

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Post by EvilArmourKing » Tue May 13, 2008 11:25 am

Work, house move negotiation, Out drinking (MMU Student Uni), then club (Paradise Factory), then hanging out at friends apartment watching TV til early morning, then home, then complete move in same day, then out drinking (Ape + Apple), then The Ritz, then Casino (just for coffee!!) then locked out of apartment, then home to complete house move and then too work.

And now only FIVE (5) mins left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by TMR » Tue May 13, 2008 11:36 am

EvilArmourKing wrote:And now only FIVE (5) mins left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is that five minutes of work or five minutes before you pass out?!

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Post by SirClive » Tue May 13, 2008 12:10 pm

Golden Axe - a beat'em up :?
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Post by rossi46 » Tue May 13, 2008 1:20 pm

Golden Axe is not a beat 'em up?? :shock:

What is it, then?




Oh God, I'm old enough to remember the fcuking debacle that the Stuart Campbell 'what is a puzzle game?' thread became on here :?
Thoughts and prayers.

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Post by SirClive » Tue May 13, 2008 1:23 pm

Its a side scrolling slasher.

Move of a run and gun than a beat em up.

To me the definition of a beat em up is a game that just involves fighting. No collecting, no exploring, , no trainers... not tonight lads.
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Post by hydr0x » Tue May 13, 2008 1:52 pm

SirClive wrote:Its a side scrolling slasher.

Move of a run and gun than a beat em up.

To me the definition of a beat em up is a game that just involves fighting. No collecting, no exploring, , no trainers... not tonight lads.
I have a feeling the UK is the only country calling 1on1 fighters beat em ups. I too only call brawlers (or is that one ambiguous too?) beat em ups and that's what most on the web seem to do :/ So yes, I was slightly irritated by the Top 25

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Post by rossi46 » Tue May 13, 2008 2:19 pm

It bugged me that there was no Golden Axe on the list, being as it is, my all time fave, but I just supposed that the top scrolling beat 'em ups would be to follow in a future issue.

We've had pointless pinball games FFS :roll:
Thoughts and prayers.

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