Is Retro Gamer exclusively video?

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Nitters
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Is Retro Gamer exclusively video?

Post by Nitters » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:16 pm

The reason I ask is that there's a conversation in Q&A about Pinball Machines. Although there is some support, a lot of the commentary is that such an article or feature would be boring and irrelevant.

I don't understand this as pinball is the precursor to the video age; without pinball there would be no space invaders, no pong and (probably) no video games - and what would Miyamoto have gone on to do without Donkey Kong? It's all part of the same rich history.

So are we doomed to the endless C64 vs Spectrum one-up-manship (which I suspect most of the commentators want), or can we expect RG to branch out and explore other (related) avenues?
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Re: Is Retro Gamer exclusively video?

Post by Antiriad2097 » Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:11 am

Nitters wrote:without pinball there would be no space invaders, no pong and (probably) no video games
Is there even a shred of evidence to support this claim?

I don't have a huge problem with pinball being in the mag, but I do believe the links between the two are tenuous.
If it was that popular, there's be a lot more pinball video games ;)
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Re: Is Retro Gamer exclusively video?

Post by SirClive » Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:52 am

Antiriad2097 wrote:
Nitters wrote:without pinball there would be no space invaders, no pong and (probably) no video games
Is there even a shred of evidence to support this claim?
I don't really care either way about pinball and have enjoyed the odd game in the past, but to make that statement is ridiculous.

Its like saying that without the bicycle we would not have air travel.
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Post by Opa-Opa » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:42 am

Pinball fans go on and on about this, trying to be accepted by real gamers and trying to fill our magazine with their boring rubbish.. Lets face it, there is no way there will ever be a Pinball magazine on the shelves of your local newsagent because it would never sell so they get all sulky and want everyone else to put up with their junk.

Pinball games have nothing to do with Videogames at all, have no baring on the evolotion of gaming and if they were never invented only leather jacket wearing, 1950's grease loving freaks would miss them.

If we include Pinball machines then anything that accepted a coin would have to be included such as fruit machines, coin changers, those chocolate machines that you used find on train platforms, tampon machines from out the girls loo etc etc..

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Post by Antiriad2097 » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:17 am

If we're not going to be staying 'video', can I have boardgames covered please. They're far more interesting to me than pinball and have been a much greater influence on a wider range of videogames than pinball ever was. I'd also argue that boardgames have a much wider audience, with more people playing a greater number of board games than pinball.

I do already subscribe to a podcast that covers this mix of board and video games, this is not just a whimsical argument :D
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Post by MC1 » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:57 am

Opa-Opa wrote:Pinball fans go on and on about this, trying to be accepted by real gamers and trying to fill our magazine with their boring rubbish.. Lets face it, there is no way there will ever be a Pinball magazine on the shelves of your local newsagent because it would never sell so they get all sulky and want everyone else to put up with their junk.

Pinball games have nothing to do with Videogames at all, have no baring on the evolotion of gaming and if they were never invented only leather jacket wearing, 1950's grease loving freaks would miss them.

If we include Pinball machines then anything that accepted a coin would have to be included such as fruit machines, coin changers, those chocolate machines that you used find on train platforms, tampon machines from out the girls loo etc etc..
Dont forget Johnny machines too.
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Post by felgekarp » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:27 am

MC1 wrote:
Opa-Opa wrote:Pinball fans go on and on about this, trying to be accepted by real gamers and trying to fill our magazine with their boring rubbish.. Lets face it, there is no way there will ever be a Pinball magazine on the shelves of your local newsagent because it would never sell so they get all sulky and want everyone else to put up with their junk.

Pinball games have nothing to do with Videogames at all, have no baring on the evolotion of gaming and if they were never invented only leather jacket wearing, 1950's grease loving freaks would miss them.

If we include Pinball machines then anything that accepted a coin would have to be included such as fruit machines, coin changers, those chocolate machines that you used find on train platforms, tampon machines from out the girls loo etc etc..
Dont forget Johnny machines too.
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Post by Elgin_McQueen » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am

Antiriad2097 wrote:If we're not going to be staying 'video', can I have boardgames covered please. They're far more interesting to me than pinball and have been a much greater influence on a wider range of videogames than pinball ever was. I'd also argue that boardgames have a much wider audience, with more people playing a greater number of board games than pinball.

I do already subscribe to a podcast that covers this mix of board and video games, this is not just a whimsical argument :D

Didn't we actually do boardgames already? On the premise they were based on video games. On that same idea there must be at least some pinball machines based on video games?
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Post by Elgin_McQueen » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:09 am

TMR wrote: And you wonder why you're being labelled as elitist... you couldn't be any more elite if you were a wireframe.

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Post by Elgin_McQueen » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:11 am

Opa-Opa wrote:Lets face it, there is no way there will ever be a Pinball magazine on the shelves of your local newsagent because it would never sell

http://www.pinballnews.com/news/today.html

Having said that, it is dated 2005. :?


http://www.pingamejournal.com/
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Post by Antiriad2097 » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:31 am

Elgin_McQueen wrote:Didn't we actually do boardgames already? On the premise they were based on video games. On that same idea there must be at least some pinball machines based on video games?
We only covered videogame related boardgames, in the same way we covered pinball related videogames.

I'd like to see it branch out to cover non-videogame board games rather than pinball. Stuff like Mystic Wood, which was a more family friendly fantasy themed boardgame. It had similar random elements (including the board layout) to many computer adventure games, but with the bonus of high resolution art assets.
Tabletop wargames could be interesting. There's the obvious stuff like Warhammer and its 40k variant but there's plenty more, many of which were in some way attempted on computers.
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Re: Is Retro Gamer exclusively video?

Post by knight_beat » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:37 am

Antiriad2097 wrote:
Nitters wrote:without pinball there would be no space invaders, no pong and (probably) no video games
Is there even a shred of evidence to support this claim?

I don't have a huge problem with pinball being in the mag, but I do believe the links between the two are tenuous.
If it was that popular, there's be a lot more pinball video games ;)
I admire your circular reasoning. If there aren't any pinball mags, there is clearly no desire for a pinball mag. I'm glad that the same reasoning was not applied to retro game magazines...

Of course pinball machines have are related to arcade/computer gaming. There's a clear, if not entirely tidy progression of games development during the last 500+ years. Pinball, gambling machines and video games are all examples of games that use electronics and they share many similarities. If you look into the history of the "coin-op" industry, the infrastructure was initially established for gambling machines. However, pinball and video games a few years later gained a foothold as a 'safe' source of entertainment that did not require a financial payout.

Personally, I vote against pinball coverage. RG's remit is overwhelmingly huge and there is little need to expand it further. However, I have no objections to a brief article on videogame inspired pinball or coverage of PinMAME.

Edit: Has there been a pinball article in the past? I remembered reading something on the topic in the latter issues of the Live Retro Gamer.
Last edited by knight_beat on Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by SirClive » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:37 am

I'd be happier if it was purely videogames. I'd like to see Retro Fusion come back and cover the other aspects.
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Post by Muteki » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:43 am

Perhaps RG could come with a free 'Things In Cabinets' supplement? Issue 1 with a centrefold of 1970s sandwich vending machines. :wink:

I like pinball, but I wouldn't want to read about it in RG, particularly not on the flimsy premise that because it's housed in a wooden box and sits in arcades it's therefore relevant.

The grumpy-looking woman in the change kiosk does that, it doesn't mean that there's a pressing need to give her coverage in Retro Gamer.
Antiriad2097 wrote:I'd like to see it branch out to cover non-videogame board games rather than pinball. Stuff like Mystic Wood, which was a more family friendly fantasy themed boardgame. It had similar random elements (including the board layout) to many computer adventure games, but with the bonus of high resolution art assets.
Tabletop wargames could be interesting. There's the obvious stuff like Warhammer and its 40k variant but there's plenty more, many of which were in some way attempted on computers.
:shock:

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Re: Is Retro Gamer exclusively video?

Post by Antiriad2097 » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:45 am

knight_beat wrote:Edit: Has there been a pinball article in the past? I remembered reading something on the topic in the latter issues of the Live Retro Gamer.
There has been some coverage - we've had reviews of the Gottlieb Collection and there's been coverage of the Pinball Dreams/Fantasies games, as well as lots of references from Darran to Devil's Crush.
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