Official Feedback FOR ISSUE 44

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merman
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Post by merman » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:48 am

dr_bob wrote:It was a bit late making the trip over the Irish sea here , but it came out yesterday.Lots of Good stuff, Liked the Doom ,SMS,Fractalus (since I had a pirate copy I never realised the alien pilots werent mentioned in the manual and were a suprise to most players)and Fort apocolpyse articles , but 2 things bugged me.
If a Gauntlet clone (alien breed, and its even mentioned as being one in its descriptive entry) can make it to the top 25 run and gun shooters why cant Gauntlet??
And yeah , lots of atari coverage , which is brilliant, but how come theres no mention of the atari 8bit version of green beret/Rush 'n attack? I mean the the fecking obscure c16/msx/bbc versions are covered! Its a pity as its one of the few chances of featuring the Atari in conversion capers.
(unless you fancy doing an Arkanoid one next
..;))
The Atari 8-bit version got a mention in the Green Beret article, in the form of a screenshot and a sarcastic caption...
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dr_bob
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Post by dr_bob » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:04 am

merman wrote:
The Atari 8-bit version got a mention in the Green Beret article, in the form of a screenshot and a sarcastic caption...
>gets out the magnifying glass<
Ahh..yeah ...I'd actually missed that, still a proper mention ,or comparison would have been nice.
Last edited by dr_bob on Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Elgin_McQueen » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:02 am

Picked it up on way to uni, still in my bag. Liked the cover!!! :D :D
TMR wrote: And you wonder why you're being labelled as elitist... you couldn't be any more elite if you were a wireframe.

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Post by fredghostmaster » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:01 pm

Excellent Green Beret article, Spy Hunter worth reading, Bombjack apology welcome. Rest of the magazine....rather disappointing :(

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Post by SqueakyGibson » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:16 pm

Heya,

This issue probably has the most striking cover I've ever seen, great stuff.

Nitpick: it seems the various writers have contradictory ideas about what defines "retro". This isn't a new debate, I'm sure there are lots of deep debates on these forums about it. But a couple of quotes from this issue:

Page 5 about Doom: "Some may feel that a game from 1993 is too new to appear in these hallowed pages..."
Why? 1993 is right in the middle of the 16-bit generation, definitely retro. RG covers fully-polygonal Dreamcast games from 2001! I think Doom is totally retro.

Page 17: "It'll be a cold day in hell (or a good ten years at least) before you see any PlayStation retrospectives in your beloved Retro Gamer."
Again, RG covers fully-polygonal Dreamcast games from 2001, along with Saturn and N64 games. I personally find none of these consoles as purely "retro" as the 8- and 16-bit eras; but if RG deems them acceptable, why not the PlayStation? Is it because the Saturn and Dreamcast failed, therefore they feel more "historic"? Whereas the PlayStation brand continued into modern times?


The Doom article was very cool, however the "Conversions of Doom" section screams out for more depth, perhaps a full Conversion Capers, maybe?
- The writer seems to review the PSX/Saturn version poorly, without mentioning that they were extremely faithful, had better lighting, and a wonderfully atmospheric CD-quality soundtrack (the sound of crying babies! *shudder*).
- The N64 version is described as "the definitive Doom port". Although the writer acknowledges "reworked monsters", he doesn't actually mention that this is a totally different game, and therefore can't be a definitive "port". N64 Doom was a totally different true-3D engine with 100% different level design, and 100% different graphics. It was "Doom" in name only. It's a really decent game, but a "definitive port" it ain't. Plus, most people who bought it at the time complained that it was unplayably dark on most televisions.
- There really needed to be some mention of how sprites always faced forwards in the crappier versions, because they didn't have room to put all the sprite animations in. Also some mention of "green blood" censorship in all Nintendo versions.

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LeeT
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Post by LeeT » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:41 pm

SqueakyGibson wrote: Page 5 about Doom: "Some may feel that a game from 1993 is too new to appear in these hallowed pages..."
I think this was just referring to those 'what is retro' arguments that spring up on most forums.
Page 17: "It'll be a cold day in hell (or a good ten years at least) before you see any PlayStation retrospectives in your beloved Retro Gamer."
This was a subbing error and was meant to be PS2.

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Post by Mickey T » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:07 pm

SqueakyGibson wrote:
The Doom article was very cool, however the "Conversions of Doom" section screams out for more depth, perhaps a full Conversion Capers, maybe?
- The writer seems to review the PSX/Saturn version poorly, without mentioning that they were extremely faithful, had better lighting, and a wonderfully atmospheric CD-quality soundtrack (the sound of crying babies! *shudder*).
- The N64 version is described as "the definitive Doom port". Although the writer acknowledges "reworked monsters", he doesn't actually mention that this is a totally different game, and therefore can't be a definitive "port". N64 Doom was a totally different true-3D engine with 100% different level design, and 100% different graphics. It was "Doom" in name only. It's a really decent game, but a "definitive port" it ain't. Plus, most people who bought it at the time complained that it was unplayably dark on most televisions.
- There really needed to be some mention of how sprites always faced forwards in the crappier versions, because they didn't have room to put all the sprite animations in. Also some mention of "green blood" censorship in all Nintendo versions.

Would have to agree that the conversions of Doom needed fleshing out, the difficulty is that Doom has had so many conversions and the template doesnt allow for more. I also had to drop a lot of info on the Doom wads.
The Saturn and PSX versions of Doom while being good were both far from perfect, frame rate especially, the sound was exceptional, but if you play them next to a well specced PC or the 360 version the differences are far from subtle. As for the N64 version, that was included because it is a favourite of Romero and Carnack, who both consider it to be the truest Doom.

Some extras you might like, Space negated their inclusion.

Masters of Doom the cartoon series, really is funny
http://www.reelsplatter.com/doom-cartoon.html

Various Doom Soundtracks and remixes
http://hellonearthsound.altervista.org/ ... ome&page=1

The Doom Bible
http://5years.doomworld.com/doombible/

Bill Gates In Doom Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1579845295

My personal fave Doom Wad
http://ltd.doomwadstation.com/ltdscreenshots.html

and the Doom Comic

http://www.doomworld.com/10years/doomco ... php?page=0

enjoy
ooer

Keeps us off the streets
http://www.purevolume.com/bchordassassins

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merman
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Post by merman » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:52 pm

I am in touch with the programmer of the Saturn conversion of Doom, so maybe a feature/spot for another time?
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1500graham
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Post by 1500graham » Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:43 am

Just read the Spy Hunter article, very good as expected. I always preffered the Speccy version to the C64 though.
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Post by Mayhem » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:52 am

Actually either way I found the home conversions (especially the C64) more playable than the arcade...
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:39 am

Mayhem wrote:Actually either way I found the home conversions (especially the C64) more playable than the arcade...
Never played the Speccy one but I'd agree with this, the C64 version was brilliant fun. Granted the arcade version loses quite a bit without the sit down cab and the steering wheel controller, but even today if I'm playing the Midway classics version or MAME I think 'this isn't as good as the 64 version" Thought it was just me ;)

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Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:25 am

The speccy version was the best. Everone else is WRONG. :)
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Post by Stuart@retrogamer » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:13 am

The CPC version was no slouch in bed - metaphorically speaking of course.

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E-Type
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Post by E-Type » Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:18 pm

Great to see some Acorn BBC Micro coverage with Green Beret and Magic Mushrooms (as well as the chart) but it's a big shame you missed the Acorn conversion of Doom/Doom2!

It's got translucency, overlayered rotating map, error diffusion of graphics, desktop play etc:

http://www.acornarcade.com/forums/viewt ... ewsid=1045

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Post by rtrgrl78 » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:50 am

Excellent magazine guys, have just read it from cover to cover, this for me has been one of the best Retro Gamers magazine. Loved Collectors Corner, really well covered. The Doom piece very scary and reminds me I need to get the game up and running on my Laptop for some scary winter nights ahead. 'James Pond' (one of my favourite games) was a joy to read and the legendary 'Populous' is one to hunt down for the winter months. Laugh out loud moments were the coverage of Ataris' E.T. I actually owned this - well was given to me, buy this kid who had outgrown all his games and one thing you're right about is the cover looks so promising and a lot of work has gone into that, shame about the game. Really enjoyed reading about the Master System too, that was a system back in its day. Liked the piece on A Nightmare on Elm Street too, what were Nintendo thinking of? this should have been a classic, but is a little to bizarre for words. The only thing that could have made this a perfect magazine for me, would have been a CD-ROM complete with all the games covered, oh well can dream I suppose!

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