Retro Gamer - Issue 206

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ely
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by ely » Fri May 08, 2020 1:15 pm

Weblaus wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 12:08 pm
Wrote some stuff.....
:roll: :|

Please have some perspective, is this stuff really that important?

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by Weblaus » Fri May 08, 2020 1:31 pm

ely wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:15 pm
Weblaus wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 12:08 pm
Wrote some stuff.....
:roll: :|

Please have some perspective, is this stuff really that important?
No, it's not.

But I don't take kindly to being talked down to by smug folk who don't even bother to read what I actually wrote (that's not directed at you, by the way) yet feel it's important to be snide about it.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by ely » Fri May 08, 2020 2:45 pm

Weblaus wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:31 pm
But I don't take kindly to being talked down to by smug folk who don't even bother to read what I actually wrote (that's not directed at you, by the way) yet feel it's important to be snide about it.
Fair enough, although I'm not reading anything in this thread that suggests there are any "smug" people "talking down" to you, just staff trying to explain things.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Sat May 09, 2020 1:03 pm

Weblaus wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 1:51 pm
Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:18 am
I can't talk for digital copies or subs, but if you're ordering 206 from MFM it will take around 3 weeks to turn up after dispatch.
And speaking of subs, since the email with the digital link to 207 just showed up in my inbox: I'm guessing that will again only be available through the website and only with the subs cover? In that case, please don't produce a regular cover we're not able to get at all, especially when it would have been better looking than the subs one (i.e. 9 out of 10 times, including the new one).
The regular cover is still being made as it's for the digital subs. The image of the wrong cover for MFM has been a mix up and the subs cover should appear from next issue.
Image

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by Weblaus » Sat May 09, 2020 1:35 pm

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:03 pm
Weblaus wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 1:51 pm
Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:18 am
I can't talk for digital copies or subs, but if you're ordering 206 from MFM it will take around 3 weeks to turn up after dispatch.
And speaking of subs, since the email with the digital link to 207 just showed up in my inbox: I'm guessing that will again only be available through the website and only with the subs cover? In that case, please don't produce a regular cover we're not able to get at all, especially when it would have been better looking than the subs one (i.e. 9 out of 10 times, including the new one).
The regular cover is still being made as it's for the digital subs. The image of the wrong cover for MFM has been a mix up and the subs cover should appear from next issue.
Thank you - I appreciate the explanation. Though I'm still a bit sad there's no way to get the printed magazine with the regular cover these days and can't help but wish that it would be used instead of the subs one.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by merman » Sat May 09, 2020 2:04 pm

Weblaus wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 12:08 pm
merman wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:21 am
You do realise it was probably an automated script that put up the next issue cover, and the situation changed?
You do realise that your smug tone doesn't come across that well when you clearly didn't read carefully what I wrote?

The next issue (i.e. #207) is available to subscribers for online reading as of yesterday - I know that because I got the mail from Future with the link for it.

That issue (again, #207) is there in all its 100 pages, with the cover being a typical retail design, while the editorial page shows both variants - I highly doubt an automated script was able to do the work of layouters and editors to achieve that, wouldn't you agree on at least that?

So I was inquiring if the situation has indeed changed sind the last one (that being #206) and if the new issue (#207) will again be available with both covers depending on where you order/buy them - I am allowed to do so, I hope?

And I added my request that - if the situation has not changed, and I can't realistically see how it should have - to not produce a cover variante I can't realistically get. Obviously the editorial doesn't have to respect my wish, but I would appreciate to know nevertheless. Preferrably without ill-advised snide comments like yours.

And by the way, since clearly you know it all, care to explain how mighty an automated script has to be that apparently nobody has been ablte to chance the cover of #206 on the website to the one you actually receive for more than 3 weeks now? Sure they don't have to because there's no other choice beside take it or leave it, but I'd think that would be the more correct way show something the way it's actually sold.
Have you ever heard the expression "lead time"?

Content is being created well before a magazine goes to print. That includes cover designs.
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by Weblaus » Sat May 09, 2020 5:43 pm

merman wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 2:04 pm
Have you ever heard the expression "lead time"?

Content is being created well before a magazine goes to print. That includes cover designs.
Granted you can't know that, but I've been working as an editor for a monthly video game magazine for over 20 years now - so I have a tiny bit of experience in these matters and may even have vaguely heard some of these strange expressions before.

I doubt there's much of anything you can teach me about how things work in print. Unless you seriously believe procedures in the UK are magically completely different. But even then, I'd still tell you to shove your condescending attitude that you impressively managed to rise to even bigger heights.

You want to tell me lead times are so long that you have to make a final decision what the cover (especially the cover!) will look like a month or so before the sale date? The lead time argument might be right for #206, but definitely not #207 now. And there's absolutely no way the standard cover would actually need to be used or displayed - especially for the digital edition - if somebody decided against it.

Perhaps take a hint how to answer a question from Darran. I don't necessarily agree with his reasoning in this case, but I respect his explanation. Because he read my inquriy, understood it and explained the situation without being a total (bad word) about it like some (well, one) of his writers who very likely isn't involved in the decision-making anyway.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by Antiriad2097 » Sun May 10, 2020 3:08 am

Are you also aware of irony?
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by Weblaus » Sun May 10, 2020 4:12 am

Antiriad2097 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:08 am
Are you also aware of irony?
"Irony" as in "lame justification for being a smug smartass", I suppose?

Yeah, I could see that despite English not being my mother language.

As a next step you could try belittling me for that, I'm sure that also works very well in your circles.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by Rory Milne » Sun May 10, 2020 10:00 am

Weblaus wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 4:12 am
Antiriad2097 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:08 am
Are you also aware of irony?
"Irony" as in "lame justification for being a smug smartass", I suppose?

Yeah, I could see that despite English not being my mother language.

As a next step you could try belittling me for that, I'm sure that also works very well in your circles.
I'm certain no one meant to upset you. I mean, obviously you're upset, but I don't think that was anyone's intension.

All that I can really add to the discussion of the retail covers and the subscription covers is that there are so many more readers on social media that prefer the subscription covers than all of the people that regularly visit the forum put together - and some of those forum members prefer the subscription covers too.

That aside, from an editorial point of view, I can only guess that the sensible thing to do after being told from above that it's only financially viable to print subscriber copies plus spares that are sold online would be to print every copy with the subscribers cover, rather than have a large print run with subscriber covers for subscribers and a very small print run with retail covers to sell online.

Of course, the digital copy of Retro Gamer has the retail cover, but that copy has to sell its contents to people who have never read the magazine and have just discovered it for the first time. So naturally it's helpful to use the retail cover in that particular scenario.

At any rate, enjoy the rest of your weekend and stay safe, Rory. :)

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by merman » Sun May 10, 2020 10:06 am

Weblaus wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 4:12 am
Antiriad2097 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:08 am
Are you also aware of irony?
"Irony" as in "lame justification for being a smug smartass", I suppose?

Yeah, I could see that despite English not being my mother language.

As a next step you could try belittling me for that, I'm sure that also works very well in your circles.
There is so much more to worry about in the world right now...
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by Weblaus » Sun May 10, 2020 11:28 am

merman wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:06 am
There is so much more to worry about in the world right now...
Oh, there definitely is, and even more so especially in your part of it, I would guess.

So why did you bother to get involved with your snidely drive-by posts? You don't need to bother with yet another pointless oneliner non-answer.
Last edited by Weblaus on Sun May 10, 2020 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by Weblaus » Sun May 10, 2020 11:44 am

Rory Milne wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:00 am
I'm certain no one meant to upset you. I mean, obviously you're upset, but I don't think that was anyone's intension.
I very much disagree on that and would say it's pretty clear that it was (wouldn't be the first time from certain people, actually), but that is them and not you or Darran, so let's leave it at that.
Rory Milne wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:00 am
All that I can really add to the discussion of the retail covers and the subscription covers is that there are so many more readers on social media that prefer the subscription covers than all of the people that regularly visit the forum put together - and some of those forum members prefer the subscription covers too.

That aside, from an editorial point of view, I can only guess that the sensible thing to do after being told from above that it's only financially viable to print subscriber copies plus spares that are sold online would be to print every copy with the subscribers cover, rather than have a large print run with subscriber covers for subscribers and a very small print run with retail covers to sell online.

Of course, the digital copy of Retro Gamer has the retail cover, but that copy has to sell its contents to people who have never read the magazine and have just discovered it for the first time. So naturally it's helpful to use the retail cover in that particular scenario.
That sounds like a reasonable theory, I have to admit. And if that's close to the truth (which both you and me obviously can't say for sure unless Darran or someone else from Future would confirm, which we really can't expect them to), it's hard to argue against as well.

That said, I have a hard time understanding the majority of people, I guess - the subscription covers just range from at best okay (usually when they closely stick to the design of the retail variant) to total abominations and I'd be absolutely happy to not have them forced on me as a subscriber. Obviously I don't know sales numbers for Retro Gamer, but based on my own experiences with this kind of stuff, I would guess they're likely rather low, but with a high percentage of subscribers and still profitable because of that or Future would have long pulled the plug.

And I know it's not something to decide for the editorial staff, but it certainly would have been nice to offer the option to keep the retail cover as a subscriber (during normal times, of course). We do that with our magazine and we're a very small company of just around 10 people, so I feel if it's possibly for us to handle without losing money, it should be child's play for a big publishing house like Future.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by Rory Milne » Sun May 10, 2020 12:34 pm

Weblaus wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:44 am
Obviously I don't know sales numbers for Retro Gamer, but based on my own experiences with this kind of stuff, I would guess they're likely rather low, but with a high percentage of subscribers and still profitable because of that or Future would have long pulled the plug.
All I can say for sure on that one is that Retro Gamer is Future's best-selling games magazine some months - but only because Darran has said as much in the past, and on the 'popular' tab on the My Favourite Magazines website Retro Gamer is the only games magazine listed there. Some UK mags publish their circulation numbers with the Audit Bureau of Circulations - like PC Gamer, for example, but Retro Gamer's numbers aren't made public.

Like you, I've always imagined that RG sells more subscriber copies than retail copies, but I've no idea if that's the case.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 206

Post by Weblaus » Sun May 10, 2020 1:12 pm

Rory Milne wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:34 pm
All I can say for sure on that one is that Retro Gamer is Future's best-selling games magazine some months - but only because Darran has said as much in the past, and on the 'popular' tab on the My Favourite Magazines website Retro Gamer is the only games magazine listed there. Some UK mags publish their circulation numbers with the Audit Bureau of Circulations - like PC Gamer, for example, but Retro Gamer's numbers aren't made public.

Like you, I've always imagined that RG sells more subscriber copies than retail copies, but I've no idea if that's the case.
I'm pretty surprised at that - not because RG wouldn't deserve it, but because I'd have thought Edge still would hold that title. I do subscribe to both and it always felt to me that Future thinks Edge is much more important. Obviously with the big exclusives and "we're special" attidude (like producing that "feel better"-issue on short notice last month), but also because that magazine actually seems to have a reasonably decent delivery service in place for international customers - at least I always got the new issue a LOT quicker (sometimes merely days, sometimes several weeks!) than my copy of Retro Gamer.

But on anecdotal evidence, I know quite a few German readers of RG (who share my annoyance with the god-awful delivery times for their subscriptions) yet nobody else who still buys Edge (and I'll also drop my subscription when it's up soon) around here, so that would fit somehow.

Not having verified circulation obviously numbers means they're pretty low, it's the same thing around here. If it''s still enough to keep the magazine around, I think everyone can live with that, though. I was seriously surprised the decision was made to axe the OXM with the new hardware being just around the corner - I'd have though that would have meant to give it at least a fighting chance to find new readers even with the current situaton going on, but I guess it must have done truly bad numbers.

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