Retro Gamer - Issue 126

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Rory Milne
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Rory Milne » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:15 am

RodimusPrime wrote:I think you have completely missed the point here TBH.
That does happen from time to time, RP.

My point, though, is that the feedback in this thread should be about issue 126. Even the message that I'm typing just now is derailing the thread further, so I'll make it my last on the subject.

As I suggested before, anyone who feels that feedback in general isn't being listened to can create a new thread pointing that out and discuss their views there with others who feel the same. This would highlight and air any grievances anybody has and would leave this thread clear for those who still have feedback to give on the articles in issue 126.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by RodimusPrime » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:16 am

Rory Milne wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:I think you have completely missed the point here TBH.
That does happen from time to time, RP.

My point, though, is that the feedback in this thread should be about issue 126. Even the message that I'm typing just now is derailing the thread further, so I'll make it my last on the subject.

As I suggested before, anyone who feels that feedback in general isn't being listened to can create a new thread pointing that out and discuss their views there with others who feel the same. This would highlight and air any grievances anybody has and would leave this thread clear for those who still have feedback to give on the articles in issue 126.
Thats the point though, feedback is being ignored and argued against, If you go and make another thread then its even easier for the people who should be listening to it to ignore, as they just will not bother going into that thread.

what is the point, if feedback about a certain issue is not being listened to in a thread specifically about leaving feedback for that issue, then why have a feedback thread at all.

Its almost like you are saying, all the poeople who have negative feedback should go elsewhere and leave the feedback thread to only those who want to say good things, therefore completely negating the point of an actual feedback thread.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:34 am

Pete Cooke interview was superb.Whilst aC64 man myself (and thus missed a good few of his games) i always admired what he had achieved on the Speccy and cast an envious eye at Micronaught One, Academy etc and being a fan of Lost Games, the mention of NES Stunt Car Racer was superb.

As for creating another feedback/ideas thread..Why?.Valid questions/points/concerns etc have been brought up in this months thread, just as they were last months for example, but in a lot of cases has gone ignored.

So why would a seperate thread generate any more of a response than this existing one or indeed a different style of response?.The 'moaners' as we are seen are'nt going away guys....we've put questions to you, we'd welcome some answers....

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Rory Milne
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Rory Milne » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:39 am

RodimusPrime wrote:Its almost like you are saying, all the poeople who have negative feedback should go elsewhere and leave the feedback thread to only those who want to say good things, therefore completely negating the point of an actual feedback thread.
Not at all, Rod.

I'm saying that anyone who feels that in general their feedback isn't being listened to should create a new thread to say so. That would make their opinions harder to ignore not easier as the problem would be flagged up rather than buried away in a thread where you would naturally expect to find comments on issue 126 articles.

As it is, this thread isn't being left free for fresh comments on the articles in issue 126 - positive or negative - and there isn't a separate thread highlighting more general issues with the handling of feedback.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:50 am

:? Eh? ' this thread not being left free for fresh comments on the articles in issue 126 - positive or negative', yet Deadpan has left feedbaclk, i've just commented on 1 of the few remaining parts of the magazine i'd yet to read etc.People are 'free' to post on any/all articles, if forum stays working long enough to get a post up.

Fact is (and we can dance around this until we are all blue in the face), people did give feedbaclk were classed as moaners, spoilt etc.People made suggestions on how to improve level of research, not 1 response from Freelancers as of yet, points about errors creeping into articles been glossed over, plus put questions to Freelancers, to see if via their contacts they can shed any light on things not mentioned in articles, so far nothing....

The issues/concerns people have with what they are reading are brought up every month, yet so often shot down every month and were told we don't understand etc, yet soon as we offer to help...
Last edited by Lost Dragon on Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Rory Milne
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Rory Milne » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:52 am

Lost Dragon wrote:we've put questions to you, we'd welcome some answers....
I may have missed your questions, Lost Dragon. As mentioned, I haven't read right through this thread. But if you have any queries about my Minority Report X68000 special please do ask - it might even help get the thread back on-topic.

Even if you hated my article, I can guarantee you a courteous and polite reply.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:59 am

Rory Milne wrote:
I haven't read right through this thread. But if you have any queries about my Minority Report X68000 special please do ask - it might even help get the thread back on-topic.

Even if you hated my article, I can guarantee you a courteous and polite reply.
The questions i've put relate to articles in this months issue regarding a developer, not your X68000 special, which i have given feedback on (loved it, some stonking looking games there which i'd have had no idea existed, if not for your article).But point i'm making here, had i 'disliked' your article, i'd have explained what was incorrect or missing, rather than say it was woeful etc, as that way you'd have feedback that could help improve future articles, right? and i know you would'nt have come in, all guns blazing saying i was moaning, trying to say i could do better, i was spoilt.Sadly not all freelancers can find it in themselves to be as professional it seems....

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Rory Milne » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:23 pm

Lost Dragon wrote:The questions i've put relate to articles in this months issue regarding a developer, not your X68000 special, which i have given feedback on (loved it, some stonking looking games there which i'd have had no idea existed, if not for your article).But point i'm making here, had i 'disliked' your article, i'd have explained what was incorrect or missing, rather than say it was woeful etc, as that way you'd have feedback that could help improve future articles, right? and i know you would'nt have come in, all guns blazing saying i was moaning, trying to say i could do better, i was spoilt.Sadly not all freelancers can find it in themselves to be as professional it seems....
Glad you got something out of my X68000 article, Lost Dragon. And, yes, if you had pointed out mistakes or omissions then of course I would have taken your comments to heart and re-doubled my efforts so that any future Minority Reports were hopefully free of errors. If you had simply said it was woeful then I'd have also taken that to be fair comment. I realise that not every piece of feedback is going to come with an explanation.

More generally, I do appreciate that paying customers won't like everything I write for the magazine, and I see each issue's feedback thread as the perfect place for them to say so.

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The Laird
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by The Laird » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:37 pm

Lost Dragon wrote: Fact is (and we can dance around this until we are all blue in the face), people did give feedbaclk were classed as moaners, spoilt etc.People made suggestions on how to improve level of research, not 1 response from Freelancers as of yet, points about errors creeping into articles been glossed over, plus put questions to Freelancers, to see if via their contacts they can shed any light on things not mentioned in articles, so far nothing....

The issues/concerns people have with what they are reading are brought up every month, yet so often shot down every month and were told we don't understand etc, yet soon as we offer to help...
To be fair LD, I replied to all the queries/questions/concerns aimed at my articles and said I was more than happy to answer any more questions.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by gman72 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:31 pm

In my opinion any issues relating from feedback aimed at this issue should be retained in this thread. Even if they become bigger than the actual subject of the thread. I don't think anyone would take too much notice of a general feedback issues thread.
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by nakamura » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:08 pm

Lost Dragon wrote:@Crusto:There's no need to go to that extreme, there's a far easier solution to issues raised on here (and it's been 'approached' in past, but best not go there, just yet...).It's clear that Freelancers are under deadlines, have limited time/resources etc when it comes to research., which is understandable, yet what surprises me is the 'team' are happy to put up threads asking for suggestions to go in future articles, so why would'nt they welcome help with researching future articles?

Many of us would make for far better researchers than writers, we'd correct 'errors' before they went to print, so nothing for us to 'moan' about and the magazine gets a higher standard of article.Jobs a good'un all-round, no?

Surely the community working with the Freelancers/main RG team to produce the best articles possible would be of benifit to all?.
While I don't think this is the worst idea in the world for accuracy, it still will not guarantee articles will not have errors in them. It's much easier to pick up errors after something has been completed then when you are working in progress, it happens in media across the world.
Movies for example, could have sections when a person is wearing gloves in one shot, not the next and then again in the next for example.

The other thing is you are generally revealing all of your hands to the public before they have been published. Think of a movie where all of the best bits are revealed along with major plot points before you have even seen it. It will diminish the impact and perhaps make seeing it completely worthless.

The simple fact is the magazine, along with every other media in the world will never be perfect. Errors can and do creep in, even when the writing knows the subject inside out. That is why correcting errors is a feedback that whilst can be useful to make sure that error doesn't happen again, doesn't really help improve the overall content and help the magazine move forward and remain fresh.
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:49 am

:wink: You probably missed it a few pages back, Laird as forum been more down than up, but i'll put it again here:Talking of Thalion...
One for Laird here-Can you see if they can shed any light on Nebulus 2 on the Atari ST?.They were said to be busy coding away on it (by the coders of the Amiga version, Inferno Bytes, as they themselves lacked the experience to do the ST version, but said Thalion were more than capable of squuezing the tricks needed out of the ST hardware)/don't think it ever game out, if not i'd love to know how far it got and why it was canned.Be great if you could put it to them, ta.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:58 am

@Nakamura:As i mentioned earler, no-one is expecting anything but realistic expections in terms of accuracy in articles, errors will always creep in, hence backspace keys, Tippex etc invented, but if community here was used to even a small degree, you'd avoid the more school boy type errors, such as those mentioned like ST Myth, MS Strider etc.Plus if as in the case of Myth writer only really aware of the C64/ZX Speccy versions etc, yet no the cart version,Thalion instant expert mentions Grandslam, but not collapse of and new publisher, community could have helped there.Countless more examples, but you get my drift.

Anything has got to be better than people jumping in head 1st with claims of agenda's, poster claims they can write a better article.All that does is cause ill-feelings on both sides and people think hang on, i've seen RG Freelancers say the same of other RG Freelancers work in past elsewhere, so what's on?.

All we really want is to avoid the easy to spot/overlook stuff.A writer can be so focused they miss the obvious (whole wood for the trees scenario).

You mention movies, well ok, how many get script's re-written, different directors, endings etc changed after test-screening? there feedback is used to shape the final product and as for spoilers, ok, Titantic? or if your an avid comic book buff like myself, you know whats going to go down in 300, Kick-Ass etc, yet it's not the destination as it were, but the journey.

If community involvement is'nt viable, no worries, i had to suggest it, but guys, please when community does pick up on errors, take it as a compliment, that your articles are being read with such scrunity, not just skimmed through.If we are taking that much time to read through it, clearly your work has captured our attention.Please no more 'moaners' or spoilt brat stuff, you'll just end up with less feedback, period.


Thank you for your time.

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The Laird
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by The Laird » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:05 am

I will ask about Nebulus 2, no mention is made of it on their website or any of the stuff they fowarded to me although a few other unreleased games are.

With regards to Grandslam, their demise was left out because just wasn't an interesting story. Just as other stories were left out for the same reason. It's easy to pick out things missing in any article but at the end of the day the word counts mean we can't include everything.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:49 am

The Laird wrote:I will ask about Nebulus 2, no mention is made of it on their website or any of the stuff they fowarded to me although a few other unreleased games are.

With regards to Grandslam, their demise was left out because just wasn't an interesting story. Just as other stories were left out for the same reason. It's easy to pick out things missing in any article but at the end of the day the word counts mean we can't include everything.
Appreciate that.It's the fact theywere named (and praised!) by another developer, as the team currently working on Nebulus II, that made me ask, as that makes for a very strong case thatwork did at the very least get started.It'd be interesting to find out just how far it got and why the project was abandoned.

The Grandslam demise did'nt need much of a mention, just a mention as you've a timeline, which missesout what really is a key event for them as at 1 point Thalion find themselves in the awful position of being in limbo as it were with no publisher in UK and things could have gone very sour for them.Plus the instant expert mention makes out Grandslam published all Thalion titles in UK, when in fact another took over.


But yes your always going to have to balance what goes in, what gets left on the extra's pile, sure most of you guys would love an extra page or 2 for your articles, but then Darran and team have to balance content and you'd get people saying what? 8 pages on...... :wink: .

Readership a nightmare to please, but as i say, fact we are reading through the articles you guys do in such depth is credit to how much they've held the attention.Where asin other mags i still subscribe to (Edge-gets skimmened through then put in the cupboard and Sci-Fi Now i cherry pick what i read).

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