Retro Gamer - Issue 126

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crusto
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by crusto » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:29 pm

Lost Dragon wrote:@Crusto:There's no need to go to that extreme, there's a far easier solution to issues raised on here (and it's been 'approached' in past, but best not go there, just yet...).It's clear that Freelancers are under deadlines, have limited time/resources etc when it comes to research., which is understandable, yet what surprises me is the 'team' are happy to put up threads asking for suggestions to go in future articles, so why would'nt they welcome help with researching future articles?

Many of us would make for far better researchers than writers, we'd correct 'errors' before they went to print, so nothing for us to 'moan' about and the magazine gets a higher standard of article.Jobs a good'un all-round, no?

Surely the community working with the Freelancers/main RG team to produce the best articles possible would be of benifit to all?.

I say this, as recently listened to a podcast where Greyfox was happy to talk about his past projects and i was amazed to hear him talking about his early Atari years (yes, this is going to be A8 related, lol) but more so the Irish A8 scene, in terms of ground level gamer and what Atari themselves were doing over there.It shed new light on a subject i thought the UK press at the time had pretty much covered, yet they'd ignored the Irish side, all i ever heard about was UK, France, Poland, Germany etc.

I'd always thought Grey's talent lay in just doing fantastic artwork (and please do the coin-op guide!), yet here was a guy happy to chat away about a largely uncovered aspect of the 8Bit era.all i could think of was..why has'nt he supplied something for RG?.

Sure the US readership alone might be keen to read more on European side of things, espically when they are covered so pporly.RG making great strides to adress this, as this months Thalion article proves, but there's stacks of potential.

Rather than people jumping in, people leaving, bizzare claims being made/lines crossed, how about we all work together here?.
I'm more of an end user tbh. I have no major knowledge of past systems, especially on a technical level. And I am not sat on any interesting information that wouldn't have been seen before. I'm always willing to help, but doubt I could contribute anything meaningful.

If anybody wants some insight or help designing and installing a commercial air conditioning system. Or even if RG would like to add a "state of the AC industry in this year" to compliment the back to the 80's and 90's sections I may be able to help lol.

Other than that it's probably best that I stay on my soap box, continue to contribute baseless feedback, and act like nothing more than a "spoiled brat"
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:41 pm

:? You seem pretty clued up on stuff like the PC Engine mate.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:04 pm

'People' can view this how they want, but i feel it's worth pointing out from a historical point of view:When Grandslam Entertainment went under, Thalion were left without a UK publisher, leaving likes of Leavin' Treamis, Atomix and Dragonflight without a UK publisher.For a while speculation went that US Gold would step in, instead Active took over.The instant Expert section just has Grandslam as publisher.Thought i'd mention as for a while, Thalion's games looked like they might no longer reach the UK.

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crusto
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by crusto » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:54 pm

Lost Dragon wrote::? You seem pretty clued up on stuff like the PC Engine mate.
Only on the games I owned and played to death back in the day, and they are little more than happy memories now. I never experienced the Super Grafx, CD-Rom, GT and the like, and I don't really have the means (or time) to do so with work, family etc to be able to address that short coming.

Ive said before though that I would love to see more coverage of NEC's consoles, and yeah, I suppose I would help out with it if I could be of use to anybody.
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:04 pm

crusto wrote:
Lost Dragon wrote::? You seem pretty clued up on stuff like the PC Engine mate.
Only on the games I owned and played to death back in the day, and they are little more than happy memories now. I never experienced the Super Grafx, CD-Rom, GT and the like, and I don't really have the means (or time) to do so with work, family etc to be able to address that short coming.

Ive said before though that I would love to see more coverage of NEC's consoles, and yeah, I suppose I would help out with it if I could be of use to anybody.
But, is that not a key part of how you or others could help?.'you' were there at the time, you played the games (probably to death and were'nt thinking frigging hell, got another 6 games to play, article to write by Friday...) so had the luxury to really explore what the games had to offer?

You knew the scene, so we'd avoid 'blips' we've (cough....) had in past where the NES it appears came into UK just in time to 'rescue us' or the MS was 'unloved' and you could help paint a true picture etc.Don't think it'd require much time from anyone, if community chipped in as/when Freelancers 'asked' for any help/advice.

I've seen threads on other forums asking their readership for help with Freelancers upcoming RG articles, as they wanted to ensure they covered the ground that mattered, so no real reason it could'nt (on paper at least) 'work here'.

Otherwise i forsee tumble-weed feedback threads before long....

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Gibberish Driftwood » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:52 pm

The Vault is back! :)
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by stvd » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:00 am

Lost Dragon wrote:But, is that not a key part of how you or others could help?.'you' were there at the time, you played the games
I agree, it's important (although not necessary) to have the perspective of people who grew up with the games and systems.
Personally, if I know that an article has been written by someone far too young to have experienced the subject first time around then it becomes less credible. I know it's possible for a teenager to cram up on facts and become an "expert" but still........
Also folk writing reviews on systems/games they never owned - information gained purely through a week or two playing with an emulator isn't really credible either. IMO! :)
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:28 am

stvd wrote:
Lost Dragon wrote:But, is that not a key part of how you or others could help?.'you' were there at the time, you played the games
I agree, it's important (although not necessary) to have the perspective of people who grew up with the games and systems.
Personally, if I know that an article has been written by someone far too young to have experienced the subject first time around then it becomes less credible. I know it's possible for a teenager to cram up on facts and become an "expert" but still........
Also folk writing reviews on systems/games they never owned - information gained purely through a week or two playing with an emulator isn't really credible either. IMO! :)
Yep, i'm only making a suggestion to Team RG (hopefully it's seen as a sensible one).Without going too much into it, there have been a few clangers dropped over the years in various RG articles by various Freelancers for various reasons and often it's become clear to the reader they had'nt lived through the era they are describing, or had only played/owned 1 version of a game so unaware of the differences on other versions or could only comment on limited aspects etc etc.

Your talking of work appearing in a 'specialist' publication, so you've really got to expect the readership to sit up and take notice if an article describes a version of events they knew just did'nt happen, or they feel an article missed out several key events or is'nt covering a publisher/developers best games or indeed glossing over some of the weaker aspects.

When readers know themselves that school boy errors in articles could, in all honesty have been avoided, they are going to point them out on the forum, so they are'nt repeated again.There's no agenda there other than trying to improve the overal quality of the magazine.Readers/freelancers alike have all been happy to point out errors on here, other retro forums, Eurogamer, you name it.

We also appreciate just how tight magazine deadlines are, espically if freelancers are writing in their spare time, juggling work, family etc commitments as well, so an idea solution might be for them to accept help offered in good faith from the forum, in order to lighten the load as it were.As i said earlier, the magazine looks to the forum for ideas/suggestions for articles, what would you like to see/feel deserves a mention type stuff as is, so why not go one step further and ask if there's any key info/events etc they feel should be mentioned in an upcoming article, any mistakes to be avoided, are these facts right etc, before they go into print.

The magazine reaches a far, far higher number of readers than we mere few who post on here, so it would'nt be spoiling the article by giving away details, all 'we' would be doing is giving the freelancer/s in question as much viable raw data, ensuring facts were as good as humanly possible, so they could work their magic and turn out a damn fine article.

Thats how a community works, right?.

Emulation is a useful tool.I mean if your going to be doing a big, multi-platform comparison article on a game that appeared on (deep breath..) C64/ZX Spectrum, BBC , Electron, CPC, ST, Amiga, A8, C16 etc, there is no way i'd expect anyone to own everymachine or spend time trying to find each bit of hardware, just to take screenshots!-that's totally unrealistic and would be a valuable waste of time and resources, but...i'd hope person writing article was aware of differences between versions on same platform (16K, 48K, 64K, 128K versions for example, tape/disk cart versions and point out what enhancements were made with extra storage, more Ram versions etc).


I your talking an ST/Amiga game and later versions fixed bugs/improved gameplay, i'd hope writer could mention that aspect (thinking of ST FOFT, Carrier Command etc).Staff writer might not have been aware of said differences/improvements until someone on here pointed it out.

It might be hard for some to swallow, but we 'moaners' DO have realistic expectitions, are fully aware of how difficult it can be to write an informative article, without it coming across as factual, but by the 7 gods, dry as a bone and deliver it on time and want to help and so far have only been able to do so by putting up constructive critiscm in terms of what we liked, what was 'missing' and might be worth putting in future articles and which mistakes needed correcting.Lets drop the ego's, none of us, posters, freelancers, UK, USA, anywhere on earth are 'experts', this is RG, not Sparta... :lol: , lets just focus on making RG shine.


As STVD points out, using emulation for a quick sesh, write an article on back of it, submit it, cheques in the post type deal just is'nt credible for a professional magazine like Retro Gamer.The reader expects higher quality research when it's paid for work and part of me thinks the publisher who's budget is going on freelancers pay, should be looking for a certain level of research, but what ever...bottom line is the readership can see when an article has been written based on someone trying to become and overnight expert...be it via emulation to test a game or a wikip.look at historical events.

Doubt we'll see another NES saved UK article anytime soon.... :lol:


At the very least, how about this 'middle ground':In future, if emulation has been used for any article, please state clearly it was and, if you like reasons why.Just be honest with the reader, no-one expects freelancers to devote every waking hour to an article, but niether do we expect any 'wool pulling'.

We're here to help, if help is wanted.If not, no worries, i had to make the suggestion, but please just be a little more open.If you only had the NES/CPC as a kid, only know discovering another platform, tell us, hey we can point you in the direction of the formats best games, undiscovered classics etc.Just don't let your personal tastes for a platform cloud your writing, many of us owned more than 1 system, bought same game on 3 or 4 different platforms, we know which is 'best' version and why...


Thanks for your time.
Last edited by Lost Dragon on Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by gman72 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:03 am

Very well put, sir.
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by retrosofer » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:29 pm

stvd wrote: I agree, it's important (although not necessary) to have the perspective of people who grew up with the games and systems.
Personally, if I know that an article has been written by someone far too young to have experienced the subject first time around then it becomes less credible. I know it's possible for a teenager to cram up on facts and become an "expert" but still........
Also folk writing reviews on systems/games they never owned - information gained purely through a week or two playing with an emulator isn't really credible either. IMO! :)
Cobblers, and your first sentence contradicts your second sentence quite frankly. Also in regards to your second sentence, if we all thought and lived by that then there would be no one left on earth to teach history of any kind on any subject. Further more what about people who write articles and books on ancient Greece and Rome, do we not listen to them or accept what they say because they are too young and never lived through those time periods to experience stuff first hand.

What you said comes across as rather snobish to me, do you want only old people to carry on the retro gaming tourch? Are the youth not entitled to write about C64 or Atari ST stuff just because they didn't live through the systems hayday? You shouldn't be so aloof and cut the youth out of the picture, they are the next generation of writers.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Rory Milne » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:02 pm

Reading through this page I can't help but notice how little feedback there is on issue 126.

By all means create new threads for other feedback topics, but please keep the posts in this thread focused on this months issue, otherwise it's pointless having a feedback thread titled Retro Gamer - Issue 126.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by deadpan666 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:55 pm

Just picked up this month's issue and loving what I've read so far...

...but I'm credited on the "From the Forum" bit on the letters page with saying something about Jurassic Park that samhain81 said when he was replying to issue 125's Favourite Movie Game question!?!? :mrgreen:

My fave isometric was Movie on the Speccy!

I claim my Trainspotter Award! :wink:

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by crusto » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:01 pm

Rory Milne wrote:Reading through this page I can't help but notice how little feedback there is on issue 126.

By all means create new threads for other feedback topics, but please keep the posts in this thread focused on this months issue, otherwise it's pointless having a feedback thread titled Retro Gamer - Issue 126.
You're quite right, but when feedback is is generally scoffed upon unless it's of the right "type" what are people supposed to do?
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Rory Milne » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:35 am

crusto wrote:
Rory Milne wrote:Reading through this page I can't help but notice how little feedback there is on issue 126.

By all means create new threads for other feedback topics, but please keep the posts in this thread focused on this months issue, otherwise it's pointless having a feedback thread titled Retro Gamer - Issue 126.
You're quite right, but when feedback is is generally scoffed upon unless it's of the right "type" what are people supposed to do?
I haven't read the whole of this thread to be honest, Crusto. I just popped in the other night and noticed how it had veered off topic.

In general, though, If you feel that feedback given for each months magazine isn't being listened to and you've come to the conclusion that the magazine - or forum - should be doing things differently or that one or the other should move in a different direction then my previous suggestion to start a new thread is sound advice.

That way, this thread can get back to focusing on feedback for issue 126 and your new thread can discuss any changes you would like to see happen going forward.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by RodimusPrime » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:25 am

Rory Milne wrote:
crusto wrote:
Rory Milne wrote:Reading through this page I can't help but notice how little feedback there is on issue 126.

By all means create new threads for other feedback topics, but please keep the posts in this thread focused on this months issue, otherwise it's pointless having a feedback thread titled Retro Gamer - Issue 126.
You're quite right, but when feedback is is generally scoffed upon unless it's of the right "type" what are people supposed to do?
I haven't read the whole of this thread to be honest, Crusto. I just popped in the other night and noticed how it had veered off topic.

In general, though, If you feel that feedback given for each months magazine isn't being listened to and you've come to the conclusion that the magazine - or forum - should be doing things differently or that one or the other should move in a different direction then my previous suggestion to start a new thread is sound advice.

That way, this thread can get back to focusing on feedback for issue 126 and your new thread can discuss any changes you would like to see happen going forward.

I think you have completely missed the point here TBH.

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