Retro Gamer - Issue 126

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Hitman_HalStep
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Hitman_HalStep » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:44 pm

i haven't managed to pick up this issue yet,for some reason my local shop's supplier didn't send one out but there should be a couple in town which i should pick up Monday hopefully.

i just wanted to raise one point in reference to "pointing out the odd mistake is not constructive feedback",to me it is when dealing with facts,since i joined the forum i've made it clear my knowledge of retro gaming is very limited,i have learned a lot since joining but i would still class it as very limited so when something is printed in the magazine as a fact i have to accept it as such.

i've always thought of the magazine as a sort of written museum (or museum in print ?) collecting all these experiences of gamers,game makers and other industry people while they are able to do so but above all presenting facts and anyone pointing out mistakes (perhaps they need to prove that they are correct,i honestly don't know) should be taken seriously on board.

maybe i misunderstood the point being made or i think wrongly about the RG magazine,if so disregard the above.
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HalcyonDaze00
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:49 pm

There is also something called taste.
I imagine RG would actually like to hear what their readers _like_ (or not)
indeed, although we clearly have a group of sycophants and lickspittle as well as paper thin skinned writers, who wish to stamp out anything negative and who seem completely oblivious to the fact that RG is a professional publication and the people giving feedback are actually paying customers who are perfectly entitled to say what they think (positive or otherwise) about a product they have bought.

The attitude of some staff/writers/freelancers etc is nothing short of appalling and it's sad to see a business sitting back and watching as it's customers are treated with utter contempt.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by markopoloman » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:55 pm

Has this run its course yet? (Lost Dragon - will you be wearing those high heals too? You know, the ones that match that leopard skin handbag? :lol: )

Lets just have more feedback on articles/the issue from this point onwards - the majority of the ones so far have all been valid as have the majority of the responses by the freelancers. No need to pack bags due to a comment from another forum member or members - if you cant take criticism, be it for or against an article - as a forum member or a freelancer - then your views should be kept in your head!
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by markopoloman » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:04 pm

HalcyonDaze00 wrote:
There is also something called taste.
I imagine RG would actually like to hear what their readers _like_ (or not)
indeed, although we clearly have a group of sycophants and lickspittle as well as paper thin skinned writers, who wish to stamp out anything negative and who seem completely oblivious to the fact that RG is a professional publication and the people giving feedback are actually paying customers who are perfectly entitled to say what they think (positive or otherwise) about a product they have bought.

The attitude of some staff/writers/freelancers etc is nothing short of appalling and it's sad to see a business sitting back and watching as it's customers are treated with utter contempt.
Y'see, that is not constructive. The attitude of the staff/writers/freelancers has been fine and you'd expect them to be defending their work. But unless I have been reading a different thread, they haven't been abusive and certainly not appalling! And the business sitting back and watching as it's customers are treated with utter contempt... WHAT! Really? Is that not completely OTT? We are talking about what, 3 to 5 members of the forum and the freelancers haven't told anyone to f#ck off or call them nasty names.
That post is just a little petrol that has been thrown into a fire that is sizzling...
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by mikeb » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:21 pm

HalcyonDaze00 wrote:
There is also something called taste.
I imagine RG would actually like to hear what their readers _like_ (or not)
indeed, although we clearly have a group of sycophants and lickspittle as well as paper thin skinned writers, who wish to stamp out anything negative and who seem completely oblivious to the fact that RG is a professional publication and the people giving feedback are actually paying customers who are perfectly entitled to say what they think (positive or otherwise) about a product they have bought.

The attitude of some staff/writers/freelancers etc is nothing short of appalling and it's sad to see a business sitting back and watching as it's customers are treated with utter contempt.
Who's wanting to stamp out anything negative? Certainly not me. Honestly Halycyon, are you just being provocative for the sake of it? Because to be honest I'm not sure I'm going to particularly bother engaging with any of the commentators on here in the future if this is the kind of remark that people are inclined to fling around.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:32 pm

mikeb wrote:
HalcyonDaze00 wrote:
There is also something called taste.
I imagine RG would actually like to hear what their readers _like_ (or not)
indeed, although we clearly have a group of sycophants and lickspittle as well as paper thin skinned writers, who wish to stamp out anything negative and who seem completely oblivious to the fact that RG is a professional publication and the people giving feedback are actually paying customers who are perfectly entitled to say what they think (positive or otherwise) about a product they have bought.

The attitude of some staff/writers/freelancers etc is nothing short of appalling and it's sad to see a business sitting back and watching as it's customers are treated with utter contempt.
Who's wanting to stamp out anything negative? Certainly not me. Honestly Halycyon, are you just being provocative for the sake of it? Because to be honest I'm not sure I'm going to particularly bother engaging with any of the commentators on here in the future if this is the kind of remarks that people are inclined to fling around.
no, I'm not, but there is no point keep going over it, there is clearly a split in how people think these feedback threads should be, probably best to get back to talking about the articles etc before the thread gets silly.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by retrosofer » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:35 pm

nakamura wrote:Pointing out the odd mistake, moaning about why X wasn't featured in an article or moaning about X being covered before and claiming there is no new content etc is not constructive feedback. Suggesting alternative ideas on how to present things, asking for items to be featured etc IS constructive feedback.
I think people need to understand just what it means.

If you read many of the posts in here, they are not feedback, they are simply moaning. The Strider feature for example had entirely new content which closed the book on a very highly rated and spectacular game. Was it too soon after the ultimate guide? Perhaps it was yes but getting content directly from this particular developer was very difficult and completely worth it. All it seems to boil down to on here is people still want their favourite stuff covered every month. I have no interest in playing a Collecovision but articles about such machines can be very informative and interesting. Retro Gamer is simple, you get out what you are prepared to put in.

The simple fact is articles do not grow on trees. There isn't an infinite pool of high quality readily produced items out there. The magazine is produced with a lot of freelance work and it is generally supplied as freelancers can.

Freelancers are also not employed by Imagine and work is all completed in our own time.

For example, I spent hours researching for an interview this year and so far I have had no reply despite an agreement being made. That is roughly 6-8 hours of work that will go unpaid. There is no guarantee the interview will come back now so it is my personal time and effort gone.
Should I give up? This is not the first and wont be the last time it will happen. Or should I soldier on, potentially wasting more of my own time to have articles torn to pieces on this supposed feedback page?

Constructive IE suggestive feedback is superb. As writers, it is impossible to improve without it. Shouting this is missing and that is missing and this was incorrect etc doesn't really help at all. I have had plenty of it via my blog on Twitter. I have used a few writing styles to test things out and people have replied to me with genuine ideas about how to present things. This has helped me greatly. Nothing in here would.
Mmmm… as others have said, feedback is feedback is feedback. What you are asking for is selective feedback, or feedback only of a certain kind. Feedback is what it essentially is, no more, no less. You can both see it as a positive interaction and take what you want from it to work towards your goals, or be negative about it and dismiss it all as moaning. Nobody said it had to be altogether constructive in certain ways to fit writers, unless there is some forum rule somewhere, feedback is feedback, and it doesn’t all come in one neat uniformed shape and size. As feedback is being welcomed from the reader, whatever guise it might take, you neither have to like it nor take it in, but you need to accept that it is been given either way.

Some people just want to voice their thoughts, concerns, suggestions and ideas after buying and reading the magazine and certain articles, there is no moaning there, no malice, no agendas, and no wish for arguments. Some feedback will be specific, some general, it’s not a literal thing to be analysed upon and taken personally, it’s just the readers simply saying what they think, no more, no less.

Pointing out mistakes of any kind, asking questions such as why x wasn’t featured, saying there is too much coverage of same subjects/games etc. or why was certain stuff missing is feedback is it not?
Last edited by retrosofer on Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:38 pm

markopoloman wrote:Has this run its course yet? (Lost Dragon - will you be wearing those high heals too? You know, the ones that match that leopard skin handbag? :lol: )

Lets just have more feedback on articles/the issue from this point onwards - the majority of the ones so far have all been valid as have the majority of the responses by the freelancers. No need to pack bags due to a comment from another forum member or members - if you cant take criticism, be it for or against an article - as a forum member or a freelancer - then your views should be kept in your head!
:lol: Wear'em Marko? i could, walk in the bast*rds? i doubt it, besides i'm just over 6 feet tall, i don't need high heels.

And darling, Leopard skin? ohh that's sooo last season, velvet crush, that's the rage in the circles i mingle in.

As for the closing statement of your valid post, how about some 'middle ground' (kinda threads U.N Buffer Zone) in terms of any 'defending of' (not overly keen on the term, so maybe responses to...comments made about) specific articles comes from those who wrote them/were paid for them, to the reader who's commenting on them, if they feel they need or want to respond?

It just gets a tad 'odd' when people start wading in defending or replying to comments made about articles they personally did'nt write.I'm sure RG Freelancers are all quite capable of speaking out for themselves regarding what they wrote, should they feel the need to respond to any readers comments.


Nakamura makes very valid points and that's why i've responded directly to his points raised, but they are umbrella points, talking about the much bigger picture of RG Freelancers, period.This is feedback thread for specific issue of RG, specific articles by specific writers being discussed.Might help to 'narrow the beam' a little here.

Also, why is'nt there a 'Like' button on RG, i've agreed with good few posts on here, yet cannot do 'owt etc quote and reply.

Retrosofer's comments about what feedback 'is' were spot on.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by merman » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:10 am

I have not treated anyone with contempt. Remember that I am a reader and a customer as well as being a freelance writer on the magazine.

Repeatedly in this feedback forum the CONTENT has been criticised with the statement "we've seen this before" or "it's the same old names interviewed" or "the same games get covered all the time".

Issue 126 does not prove any of those statements. There is new content and new angles, new people interviewed and new questions answered. I wonder if Empire's feedback forum is full of people saying "you interviewed George Lucas three years ago" or "why do you keep mentioning Citizen Kane".

If anyone feels they have to leave the forum because their attitude has been questioned, then that is their decision.
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:25 am

merman wrote:I have not treated anyone with contempt. Remember that I am a reader and a customer as well as being a freelance writer on the magazine.

Repeatedly in this feedback forum the CONTENT has been criticised with the statement "we've seen this before" or "it's the same old names interviewed" or "the same games get covered all the time".

Issue 126 does not prove any of those statements. There is new content and new angles, new people interviewed and new questions answered. I wonder if Empire's feedback forum is full of people saying "you interviewed George Lucas three years ago" or "why do you keep mentioning Citizen Kane".

If anyone feels they have to leave the forum because their attitude has been questioned, then that is their decision.
I'm sorry, but you are wrong here on a few counts.Issue 126 itself might not 'prove' various statements made, but issues before it have, you've only to look at fact that Chuck P. appeared in 2 issues running and (and the A8 gamer magazine by Greyfox which was out around the same time), so in the space of 2 months i'd read the views of 1 (key i admit) A8 coder 3 times and therefore i felt 'justified' to put my thoughts forward that it'd been nice to have another coder interviewed, IF possible and also make the suggestion that for future A8 articles, someone else who worked on the hardware was sought out.

The Chimera coder quoted in the Knightlore article has appeared in RG before, as my fellow posters pointed out.i'm personally really struggling here to find why Freelancers are having difficulty taking the points made about articles like the Knight Lore article onboard.Likes of Ipmarks (sadly now left the forum), made his thoughts quite clear.So issue 126 has proven it's same old names cropping up, when you cannot secure interviews you'd like (understandable, but cannot be ignored), same mistakes cropping up in same subjects (Shinobi).Shinobi itself as others pointed out was covered only a few months back, so it's hard to hear you say issue 126 does'nt prove any statements made, when a few of us have already picked up on what it is proving.



Yes your a customer, just like the rest of us, as well as a Freelancer, but when we mere 'customers only' find 2 Freelancers jumping in to close ranks as it were, when the articles under the spotlight were not written by yourselves, we are going to question what the deal is here.Again on basis of your work alone, you guys are paid for it, we the reader are not, so your always going to be in a seperate camp to the rest of us.


I cannot comment on Empire's forum, but i cancelled my subscription to Empire magazine many years ago, because it was just the same old names in film being interviewed, it got stale very quick and no longer felt the magazine was delivering what i'd hoped for when i took out the subscription.

It's also worth noting Ipmarks is a freelancer himself (writes for Mico Mart and had stuff published in RG magazine i seem to recal..) so fact he's felt he's had to leave here, just by giving honest feedback as a reader and Freelancer, sends out a message or 2 in it's own way.
Last edited by Lost Dragon on Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by crusto » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:33 am

merman wrote:I have not treated anyone with contempt. Remember that I am a reader and a customer as well as being a freelance writer on the magazine.

Repeatedly in this feedback forum the CONTENT has been criticised with the statement "we've seen this before" or "it's the same old names interviewed" or "the same games get covered all the time".

Issue 126 does not prove any of those statements. There is new content and new angles, new people interviewed and new questions answered. I wonder if Empire's feedback forum is full of people saying "you interviewed George Lucas three years ago" or "why do you keep mentioning Citizen Kane".

If anyone feels they have to leave the forum because their attitude has been questioned, then that is their decision.
Personally, I'm not about to go anywhere, I'll stick around to bug you guys a good while longer :lol: .Tbh I don't think the George Lucas comparison is a viable one, it's a totally different industry in which the guy is a complete legend.

For me I feel the mag keeps retreading the same old ground too much, in terms of the 8 bit computers anyway. And I would like to see the focus shift to "newer" retro for a while and freshen things up somewhat. The 8 bits (and Atari in general) hold the least amount of interest for me, so I am speaking from a completely selfish point of view. But still, I don't think I am completely alone in this.

It's obvious that the mag will never please all readers at all times but it won't stop me giving my tuppence worth. The facts are that personally, I have found the last 2 issues of RG the least interesting for years, and I simply had to have a moan about it. I am a long term paying subscriber (issue 3 onwards iirc) after all.
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by jdanddiet » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:17 am

It's funny I remember getting some mild criticism of my Deathchase article last year with the point being it did not offer anything new as I couldn't get Mervyn to talk. Even a fellow freelancer (he may not have been at the time) mentioned he was tired of seeing the game covered and did we really need an article on it which didn't tell you anything you didn't know already. But I wanted to write about deathchase and there was actually some new info about a previously unknown timex release of the game. Of course it would have been amazing if I'd got Mervyn and I'm still trying!

Personally as long as the article is well written and balanced I'm happy to just read about classic games in RG.
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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by The Laird » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:33 am

Here we go again, you are making out like Chuck Peavey was the only person interviewed in those artcles, which he wasn't, lots of other people were used too. In fact there were several interviews that I didn't even use because they just weren't interesting or didn't provide suitable information. Chuck actually considers himself a C64 man, which I thought made it that bit more interesting. I personally think Merman's comments are totally valid.

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by Lost Dragon » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:44 am

The Laird wrote:Here we go again, you are making out like Chuck Peavey was the only person interviewed in those artcles, which he wasn't, lots of other people were used too. In fact there were several interviews that I didn't even use because they just weren't interesting or didn't provide suitable information. Chuck actually considers himself a C64 man, which I thought made it that bit more interesting. I personally think Merman's comments are totally valid.

No, i'm saying he appeared in 2 issues of RG in a row, plus 1 other publication, all within space of 2 months.It's really not that hard to grasp.until you made this post i had no idea you had other interviews you could of used and going by your comments, it'd appear they'd of added nothing to either article (in RG), but that does'nt take away fact i'd still of liked to have seen a bit less of Chuck in such a short space of time, others probably liked to have seen less A8 coverage, period.It's swings and roundabouts.


What i did find honest about Chucks comments was that he was happy to talk about the A8 sprite issues (or PMG if you like) and how it effected game development, which did kinda go again'st the point the earlier text was making, that the A8 hardware could hold it's own again'st it's rivals, when clearly in this department, it did fall short, hence tricks had to be employed on something as straightforward as Panther, let alone more demanding games like Rampage or Green Beret.


No one has said Merman's or any other Freelancers comments were'nt 'valid', we've just responded to the points brought up, but it still does not detract from fact that he did'nt write the articles a few of us are commenting on, nor did you yourself, nor did Nakamura and thus when 3 staff writers jump in and there's been group back slapping, it can appear as Freelancers closing rank, which is odd as they've been happy to pass comment on other freelancers articles in feedback threads about RG elsewhere in the past.... talk of too much iOS coverage, would have liked to have seen specific Saturn games, issue being woeful, articles being full of mistakes, missing things, articles being fanzine-type material, staff writer comments he could do better (one for Nakamura to look at maybe before he thinks it's just we the reader who appear to be saying this, here a staff writer/Freelancer came out and said just that), lacking in substance...etc etc, yet we the readership say similar on here and out come the big guns, so perhaps Freelancers might want to check what they themselves have said before jumping in too much now....because they are in real danger here of creating a very real rod for their own backs...

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Re: Retro Gamer - Issue 126

Post by stvd » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:51 am

Quite weird to have a front cover game with virtually nothing relating to it inside. :?

I realise the programmers like to think of themselves as mysterious but why go ahead with the article if there's nothing to tell?
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