Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:57 am

TwoHeadedBoy wrote:
We already get shown the alternatives at the back of the magazine, and people have said which one they'd've preferred, so it'd be a similar sort of thing only slightly reversed...
Do you mean can you see cover lines before they go to the printers?

It's a nice idea, but I don't think any magazine would ever take that approach. It's also worth noting that the forum doesn't even make up a percentage of the readership, so while we obviously appreciate all the input you give us, readers who don't read the forum, wouldn't be happy that decisions are being made without their input.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by hydr0x » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:38 am

The Laird wrote:
hydr0x wrote:
TwoHeadedBoy wrote:The 3.5 million number's from the book Game Over, acknowledged as accurate by Nintendo-folk Hiroshi Yamauchi, Shiguri Miyamoto and Howard Lincoln.
Luckily I have the book so I could check that quote :)

"[...] and in 1992 a total of 6 million Game Boys and 3.5 million NES units sold in Europe."

That's 3.5 million just in 1992 mate, not overall ;)
In the version I read and it stated "by 1992" and not "in 1992". Seems I am not alone as I have found several on the net stating the same thing.

It doesn't really matter that much anyway, we all know that the SMS sold better in this part of the world. Not to mention that it was the far superior machine anyway ;)
Do you have the book in front of you? I do, first edition. I also can check a 1999 edition online here:

http://archive.org/stream/Game_Over_199 ... g_djvu.txt

Both say "in 1992". It also makes a lot of sense in the context as the text is specifically discussing how things had improved by 1992 compared to earlier years due to NOE's efforts. It wouldn't make sense to quote lifetime sales to show the successes of a specific year.

Your sentence is only correct if "this part of the world" means the UK only. The rest of Europe loved and mostly preferred the NES.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by hydr0x » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:46 am

TwoHeadedBoy wrote:Well I can't argue with that :?

I'm obviously mistaken - I forgot that I and everyone I know grew up with a NES, with Mario being part of our family since 1985. That'd explain why every third charity shop or car boot stall I look at is packed with Zappers and gold Zelda cartridges. And I'd never even HEARD of the Master System - Sega's silly, pathetic little NES-wannabe - until seeing this enlightening cover. I look forward to reading all about this ultra-obscure, complete failure of a console!
That reply was uncalled for mate. No one is claiming the NES "won" in the UK. I was merely pointing out that the UK and South America were pretty much the only markets where Sega dominated and that, as such, an objective look at the worldwide gaming history can very well refer to the SMS as an "unloved" system. Cause by most of the world, it was. As for your book examples, GamePlan Encyclopaedia of Consoles has the specific goal to cover all systems in a more or less equal way. I have the first edition here with me and it discusses the Master System on 2 pages, which is less than the NES or MSX, but more than the 7800 ;) The Haines' Video Gaming Manual is of course a UK-only publication and thus rightfully distributes its content accordingly.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by psj3809 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:07 am

No wonder us retro gamers have a bad 'image' ! ;) Post and post arguing whether the Master System is unloved or not !

Any other comments on the content this month !?!

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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by The Laird » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:12 am

Your sentence is only correct if "this part of the world" means the UK only. The rest of Europe loved and mostly preferred the NES.
Why were European sales for the SMS higher than those for the NES then?

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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by hydr0x » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:35 am

The Laird wrote:
Your sentence is only correct if "this part of the world" means the UK only. The rest of Europe loved and mostly preferred the NES.
Why were European sales for the SMS higher than those for the NES then?
a) if the SMS did indeed have an advantage of 1.5 million in the UK, the biggest European market, than that wouldn't contradict my statement unless it outsold the NES by more than 1.5 million in the whole of Europe

b) I'm not even going to get into this discussion, but I will let you know why it is futile. We all know your stance, I know your AtariAge topic and other things you wrote in this direction. You're completely speculating based on worldwide numbers for the SMS, trying to make an educates guess as to how to break it down into the regions. But the only fact is, we do not have accurate lifetime sales numbers for either system for Europe. As I pointed out above, any numbers before 1998 in Nintendo's PDF are useless as they basically only distinguish between Japan + Rest of the World. Sure, the lifetime totals claim to split this up, but if they can't split up the numbers per region for the early years, how can they split it up for the complete lifetime? As far as we know, this is just guesswork on their end. If they HAD accurate numbers for those years, they'd print them. Only then would the lifetime sales number in there be worth anything. But, the SMS numbers are even worse. We just don't have numbers. All the wikipedia articles go by is an estimate in a 1995 Screen Digest issue. Great. So we just can't prove sh*** either way. Now, if you could produce a 1992 Europe number for the Master System, we could at least compare that. But, if there are no actual numbers to compare, we could of course apply other statistical methods. Like, looking at the used console market and just analyze how much units there are about. Feel free to do that. I know what the outcome would be for mainland Europe though ;)
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by The Laird » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:41 am

Oh dear. Yes, you are right this is futile. I give up.

Let's talk about the brilliant Breakout article instead.

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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:59 am

I find it amazing that playground battles are still happening 30 years later.

Glad you liked the Breakout piece. Stuart did a great job on it and Ed Logg really helped us out.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by merman » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:00 am

TwoHeadedBoy wrote:
"Unloved" also refers to the wider perception of the console. If you read most gaming history books or articles, the Master System is a mere footnote - if it even gets referred to at all.

Yes, you can argue that it is a strong, emotive word to use on the cover. But the article is making the point that for collecting, that becomes a good thing. There are bargains to be had, and acquiring a large library of titles (many exclusive to the system) is achievable.
Cheers for that, Mr. Fisher - makes it a BIT clearer, but I'm standing by my point that it's a bad cover. Nice to see a Master System on the cover of a magazine, obviously, but it's not the right way to word things (especially as it requires such explanations to one such as myself).

As for the gaming history books, I haven't read many but both the Haines' Video Gaming Manual and the GamePlan Encyclopaedia of Consoles feature fairly extensive chapters on the Master System, so not exactly "footnotes"!

And Darran - cheers for understanding, but like I've said it's too late to do anything about it now (obviously). Maybe it could be worth setting up a "preview" section, where we all get shown what the covers could be like? We already get shown the alternatives at the back of the magazine, and people have said which one they'd've preferred, so it'd be a similar sort of thing only slightly reversed...
But then that proves the point - the Haynes manual and Gameplan are by European authors.

I can see why the wording might upset a die-hard fan. Like I said, the article itself should prompt a lot more interest in the format. There's quite a few games I'm going to check out, certainly.

And good to see TRAZ get some love in the Breakout piece. Nostalgia have just unleashed an awesome hack which fixes some bugs in the C64 version...
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by jdanddiet » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:01 pm

I really enjoyed the Styx article.

Although it was only two pages, it highlighted the real benefit of interviewing someone in person rather than phone or email which is understandably the norm these days. Kudos to messrs Drury and Smith!
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by jdanddiet » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:02 pm

And although c64 traz is awesome like merman says, please no one play the speccy version...
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by mrspud » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:06 pm

I thought the cover was excellent and the SMS article was well written and informative, learnt some stuff I didn't know about my favourite console of all time.

Alex Kidd or Sonic, though? Neither: Wonderboy! Or Opa-Opa!

Lots of good stuff still to read, and thanks very much for awarding Moebius Goatlizard a sizzler :-)
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by ncf1 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:48 pm

If I don't see Wonderboy in this issue I am going to be very very very upset. And write letters.

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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by TwoHeadedBoy » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:20 am

hydr0x wrote:
TwoHeadedBoy wrote:Well I can't argue with that :?

I'm obviously mistaken - I forgot that I and everyone I know grew up with a NES, with Mario being part of our family since 1985. That'd explain why every third charity shop or car boot stall I look at is packed with Zappers and gold Zelda cartridges. And I'd never even HEARD of the Master System - Sega's silly, pathetic little NES-wannabe - until seeing this enlightening cover. I look forward to reading all about this ultra-obscure, complete failure of a console!
That reply was uncalled for mate. No one is claiming the NES "won" in the UK. I was merely pointing out that the UK and South America were pretty much the only markets where Sega dominated and that, as such, an objective look at the worldwide gaming history can very well refer to the SMS as an "unloved" system. Cause by most of the world, it was. As for your book examples, GamePlan Encyclopaedia of Consoles has the specific goal to cover all systems in a more or less equal way. I have the first edition here with me and it discusses the Master System on 2 pages, which is less than the NES or MSX, but more than the 7800 ;) The Haines' Video Gaming Manual is of course a UK-only publication and thus rightfully distributes its content accordingly.
If I offended you there somehow I apologise - I'm not usually the type to kick up a fuss but this really got to me for some reason, hence the "outburst".

Meanwhile, I must have a later edition of the GamePlan book, as it gives the Master System four pages - equal to the PlayStation and MORE than the PlayStation 2 :wink:
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 117 - Feedback Thread

Post by rockdjuk » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:10 am

Got to say a really mediocre issue for me ...

There was nothing I immediately turned to as is usually the case .

Master system article was ok , though I'd much prefer an article on it similar to last months bbc article .

Space Invaders seemed to be rehashed stuff we already knew . Breakout article was ok .

As for the rest well most of it I just flicked through , reading bits here and there .

Myst , humans , thief all games I have no real interest in (never even heard of thief) .

Sick of list articles like the capcom one , seems lazy to me .

Best article was the interview with John Kalinske .

Not looking forward to next months - Absolutely no interest in the NES . Only the Mastertronic article looks of any real interest to me.

On the whole the magazine seems to becoming too recent for my tastes with far too much enthasis on consoles .

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