Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

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psj3809
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by psj3809 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:48 am

Still dont get why people get so upset by lists, a list will never make all the readers agree with it. I quite like lists which are a 'bit' different as it was full of the usual 'top 10 arcade games' and its Pacman, Space Invaders etc i would find that quite dull, having a list with the odd surprise entry or that i think is quite good, its obvious by this forum we dont agree on the best games (or consoles !) so its no surprise a list will cause some controversy. Seeing a list with one or two games i havent played for a while (or even forgotton about) often makes me want to dig up that old classic to try it again

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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:04 am

hydr0x wrote:Aha, found some more sources. German magazine PC Player used to reprint the German Media Control Top 20, the UK CTW Top 10 and the US PC Data Top 10. I can upload scans of these if needed but here's what it says about GTA:

Reader favorites (for what it's worth)
December 1997: new entry at 11
January: 13
February: 8
March: 8
April: 8
May: 7
June: 10
July: 13

DE Media Control
December 1997: new entry at 16
January: 11
February: 8
March: 8
April: 14
May: 16
June: 14
July: not placed

UK CTW
December 1997: new entry at 1
January: 1
February: 3
March: 9
April: 7
May: 9
June: 10
July: not placed

US PC Data (US release in Feb 1998)
February: not placed
March: not placed
April: not placed
May: not placed
June: not placed
July: not placed

Sorry for the long post, but it backs up my view nicely. The US hardly noticed GTA on the PC and in Germany it didn't cause a stir either, healthy sales, that's all. So it's really just the UK where this was a major PC game.
Wow Kleinemous would be proud of you.
Could you perhaps get one for all the other games. Otherwise it just looks like you're singling out the game you don't like.
You're still missing the point that it's the magazine's opinions though :wink:
Plus GTA was still a massively influential game and it still came out on the PC, so it's still valid on our list. Just because it didn't make a splash on its home market, doesn't mean it wasn't important.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by kiwimike » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:09 am

psj3809 wrote:Still dont get why people get so upset by lists, a list will never make all the readers agree with it. I quite like lists which are a 'bit' different as it was full of the usual 'top 10 arcade games' and its Pacman, Space Invaders etc i would find that quite dull, having a list with the odd surprise entry or that i think is quite good, its obvious by this forum we dont agree on the best games (or consoles !) so its no surprise a list will cause some controversy. Seeing a list with one or two games i havent played for a while (or even forgotton about) often makes me want to dig up that old classic to try it again
You're right of course...if you just had predictable boring lists everyone agreed with it'd be boring and very little in the way of discussion/debating points. Lists should always have a personal slant and be subjective- Everyone's own personal list is different, and there's no need for it to be 'controversal' as such...just a good starting point for a discussion on the titles, which ones aren't on your own list, which ones are and so on. :)

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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by MartynC » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:12 am

Sorry to crash this PC chat, but regarding Dragon's Lair. I didn't ask the Gary Goldman about the game's polarising nature because the article was more about charting - and celebrating - the game's 30 year history.

Regardless, Gary did mention this aspect, saying: "It's not a great game, it's a memory game... I think the phenomenon is that it was a historic and memorable moment in the lives of those who saw it when it first appeared in the arcade." That sums it up perfectly I feel.

I already asked David Foster about the limited gameplay in the previous DL feature (back in 2007, issue thirty-something). In the boxout 'Dragon's Lair is rubbish - discuss', he said: "In the case the Amiga release, I think most reviewers were so blown away by the graphics that the gameplay style was less of an issue, but it certainly was still mentioned. As I write this, we've just released our Blu-ray version of Dragon's Lair and we hear the same thing now that we heard almost 20 years ago about the gameplay. There are two camps of reviewers: those that accept that the gameplay is what it originally was and that we've done good job of recreating the original; and those that can't get over the fact that gameplay is the same as it was and has not kept up with the current gaming styles. We find more often now, reviewers will break their review into a discussion of the gameplay (they either love it or hate it) and then how this version compares to the original.

Certain versions over the years have had 'helpers' but in the versions I've been involved with we've tried to stay as true to the original as possible."

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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by hydr0x » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:15 am

My remarks regarding GTA have nothing to do with my objections to the list as a whole, they were merely meant to validate my assessment that GTA was not a BIG PC game outside the UK.

As for your opinion remark, you're missing the point that stating a game has had great influence is not a matter of opinion ;) It either had or it hadn't. Besides, I'd have no problem with a list stating to be "20 PC games worth knowing" including games for whatever crazy reason. But this list claims to list important titles and specifically mentions lasting influence in its texts. That's where my problem lies, you give the impression that this all these games had major influence on the PC market, which just isn't true.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by hydr0x » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:18 am

psj3809 wrote:Still dont get why people get so upset by lists, a list will never make all the readers agree with it. I quite like lists which are a 'bit' different as it was full of the usual 'top 10 arcade games' and its Pacman, Space Invaders etc i would find that quite dull, having a list with the odd surprise entry or that i think is quite good, its obvious by this forum we dont agree on the best games (or consoles !) so its no surprise a list will cause some controversy. Seeing a list with one or two games i havent played for a while (or even forgotton about) often makes me want to dig up that old classic to try it again
Oh, I love a controversial list, I actually complained about this one being too mainstream and predictable. What I don't like is a list that doesn't seem to be consistent in it's inclusion criteria and doesn't tell us why a game is included. Merely stating that it is important is not the same as actually explaining why it is.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:28 am

hydr0x wrote:My remarks regarding GTA have nothing to do with my objections to the list as a whole, they were merely meant to validate my assessment that GTA was not a BIG PC game outside the UK.

As for your opinion remark, you're missing the point that stating a game has had great influence is not a matter of opinion ;) It either had or it hadn't. Besides, I'd have no problem with a list stating to be "20 PC games worth knowing" including games for whatever crazy reason. But this list claims to list important titles and specifically mentions lasting influence in its texts. That's where my problem lies, you give the impression that this all these games had major influence on the PC market, which just isn't true.
I think you're taking it too literally personally, but if that's how you've read the 30 word intro I can't really change your opinion. We'll make sure it's a little clearer in the future so people don't get upset, as I can see how you've read it differently to what was intended. It's still an opinion based list though.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by necronom » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:36 am

The Laird wrote: Jag CD version of Myst is definately the best one as far as consoles go, it has more colours on screen than the other console versions and much quicker load times too.
I think the Amiga version was the best computer version when it came out, as it had better graphics (more colours) than the PC and possibly Mac original. I don't know how it compares to console versions, but it could (had to?) be installed on a hard drive, so loading must have been fast. It's been a long time since I played it.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by hydr0x » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:08 pm

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:
hydr0x wrote:My remarks regarding GTA have nothing to do with my objections to the list as a whole, they were merely meant to validate my assessment that GTA was not a BIG PC game outside the UK.

As for your opinion remark, you're missing the point that stating a game has had great influence is not a matter of opinion ;) It either had or it hadn't. Besides, I'd have no problem with a list stating to be "20 PC games worth knowing" including games for whatever crazy reason. But this list claims to list important titles and specifically mentions lasting influence in its texts. That's where my problem lies, you give the impression that this all these games had major influence on the PC market, which just isn't true.
I think you're taking it too literally personally, but if that's how you've read the 30 word intro I can't really change your opinion. We'll make sure it's a little clearer in the future so people don't get upset, as I can see how you've read it differently to what was intended. It's still an opinion based list though.
For starters, I'm not upset at all ;) It's really not just the intro though. It's stating things like "it's influence [...] cannot be overstated" without actually telling us anything about its influence. That's okay when you're covering a landmark game for the umpteenth time, but if you know this is not an undisputed classic where everyone knows what this influence was, then please tell us more. If you can't or just don't have the room then I'd try avoiding such empty phrases.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:38 pm

Are you talking about GTA Hydrox? It's influences are pretty obvious no? We'll take it in consideration for the future though, but then you run the risk of covering the basics that the vast majority of readers know about anyway.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by hydr0x » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:12 pm

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:Are you talking about GTA Hydrox? It's influences are pretty obvious no? We'll take it in consideration for the future though, but then you run the risk of covering the basics that the vast majority of readers know about anyway.
No, I only went into the GTA discussion above as others claimed it was just my memory playing tricks about its PC popularity. The quote in the above post comes from the blurb about Dungeon Keeper, but there are other examples which I mentioned in my initial example list. Games whose influence is not obvious and thus should probably be elaborated (or not be specifically mentioned).
Last edited by hydr0x on Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:23 pm

Ah furry muff. That makes more sense. I still maintain it's a great list of games.
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by Timothy Lumsden » Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:06 pm

hydr0x wrote:
Timothy Lumsden wrote:for PC games type, I noticed a PC Gamer bookazine in WH Smith last week - no idea about PC games so it could be tosh or it could be brilliant. Was a tenner though

Thanks for the heads up, was it this one?

http://www.myfavouritemagazines.co.uk/g ... -all-time/
yup that's the one I saw

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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by jdanddiet » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:00 pm

Well me and all my PC owning mates played gta on the PC, so there :wink:

Unfortunately don't have any data to back this up although I suppose I could ask for some sworn testimonies :wink:

And I'm sure your memory is fine hydrox :-)
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Re: Retro Gamer Issue 114 Feedback

Post by hydr0x » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:47 pm

jdanddiet wrote:Well me and all my PC owning mates played gta on the PC, so there :wink:

Unfortunately don't have any data to back this up although I suppose I could ask for some sworn testimonies :wink:

And I'm sure your memory is fine hydrox :-)
As said and shown by the quoted charts, it certainly was a huge success in the UK. No one's disputing that ;)
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