German Retro Gamer issue 2

[Darran@Retro Gamer]

I have no involvement with the German edition of Retro Gamer I'm afraid, so I can't tell you who takes care of the translations of changes text to make it suitable to a German audience. I'm glad to hear it's out there though.

With regards to the A8... This may come as a shock, but I don't know everything there is to know about every single computer and computer game that was ever made. I have to trust that the freelancer doing the article is doing the correct research. If I double checked every single fact in the magazine to ensure it's up to the standards of certain people then you'd have maybe two issues a year. I don't actually see the omission of a machine of a list (we're going to start moving to various systems for this very reason) as a big deal, but not including a system when it was the origin of the actual game in question is pretty unforgivable, so I understand why that would irk you, it would certainly wind me up.

As for this comment "Philip Price and Gary Gilbertson were top programmers on A8, this is world known knowledge"
Known knowledge to who?
I bet 90% of the people on this forum haven't heard of them. I know I haven't.
Miyamoto creating Donkey kong is world known knowledge, Nolan Bushnell co-founding Atari Inc is world known knowledge the statement you've given is something that only a hardcore enthusiast would probably know.

[markopoloman]

Philip Price and Gary Gilbertson

Who? Can't say those names ring any bells here either...

[RetroBob]

Me neither I'm afraid.

[kleinemaus]

You should have done a fact check really. The German edition is completely revised. They even went so far as to alter the occasional UK-biased praise of certain games and systems. Several features have additional info boxes and the like focusing on the German market. On the other hand, they dropped parts of features (like the collector's guide checklists). The mag also has a few newly written pieces. So it is definitely more than a cheap translation.

Wow, OK so that makes it even worse, the Germans don't know their 8-bit video gaming stuff, they obviously never heard of Happy Computer or ASM for research?

[kleinemaus]

Philip Price and Gary Gilbertson

Who? Can't say those names ring any bells here either...

There's more to video games than Matthew Smith and Spectrum.

[kleinemaus]

Anyways, overall the magazine is a good combination of previous RG articles, and makes a great read, especially I like the size, it's like 2.5 RG magazines put together.
Going to read it at work throughout the week (I have lots of time at work for reading, so a double whammy of a magazine is a welcome distraction)

[CraigGrannell]

You should have done a fact check really. The German edition is completely revised.

That's interesting—and rare. I guess, then, there was an editor working alongside the translator (or one person doing both).

I don't actually see the omission of a machine of a list (we're going to start moving to various systems for this very reason)

Heh. I've filed more than one piece and used 'various systems', for this very reason.

[Darran@Retro Gamer]

Anyways, overall the magazine is a good combination of previous RG articles, and makes a great read, especially I like the size, it's like 2.5 RG magazines put together.
Going to read it at work throughout the week (I have lots of time at work for reading, so a double whammy of a magazine is a welcome distraction)

Glad to hear you're enjoying it despite the niggles

[psj3809]

There's more to video games than Matthew Smith and Spectrum.

Yes but Matthew Smith and Spectrum sells magazines. You have to have a chunk of 'mainstream' every month, if it was all obscure stuff or programmers who once created a single game on the Oric in 1980 i reckon sales would start to decline.

Never heard of those two guys you mentioned. If there was an article on those two i would probably avoid that article completely. Again you do have to realise that retro gamer cant please everyone - theres casual retro fans, hardcore retro fans, plus going for some of the bigger names/companies is an obvious thing to do.

For every good point you raise i think you lose credibility when you then talk about some tiny obscure issue about a game which no one else would know or be bothered about.

You mention 'Gary Gilbertson' ? Who ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Gilbertson

You say....

"I'm sorry but to me they are (huge mistakes). I mean Philip Price and Gary Gilbertson were top programmers on A8, this is world known knowledge, Tail of Beta Lyrare, AR 1 and 2. They're like Richard Garriot, he's the most famous British programmer, known world wide for his creation of the Ultima universe."

Seriously ? World known knowledge ? Comparing him to Richard Garriot ? Seriously ? This Gilbertson fella only seems to have worked on 3 games and did the music for them, not exactly huge characters in the retro scene.

Thats the thing, to you they are huge mistakes, to 99.9% of the readership no one cares or has even heard of them.

[CraigGrannell]

Yeah, I thought the same on having a look at Wiki. Maybe we're all missing something and an A8 fan should elaborate, but to me having a go about not knowing who Gilbertson is seems rather like pointing and laughing at a Spectrum fan for not having heard of Wally Beben. (Well —ish. Beben was more prolific, but is relatively obscure compared to a Hubbard or a Hülsbeck.)

[kleinemaus]

OK what you guys are saying is:
Matthew Smith is an unknown programmer (nobody had ever heard of him in USA or Japan), who wrote three obscure games (those games of Mathew Smith are unknown in USA and Japan) on a little known computer (Timex flopped in USA).

BTW, Alternate Reality The Dungeon scored very highly in ZZAP 64 magazine, and ZZAP 64 was a best selling UK gaming magazine covering games for the C64.

[snowkatt]

OK what you guys are saying is:
Matthew Smith is an unknown programmer (nobody had ever heard of him in USA or Japan), who wrote three obscure games (those games of Mathew Smith are unknown in USA and Japan) on a little known computer (Timex flopped in USA).

BTW, Alternate Reality The Dungeon scored very highly in ZZAP 64 magazine, and ZZAP 64 was a best selling UK gaming magazine covering games for the C64.

no they are saying that outside your frame of reference phillip price and gary gilbertson are virtually unknown
and that you are far to zealous about a small mistake like that
not everybody has intimate knowledge of the A8's or is even interested in them ( amazing i know )

and a magazine has to cater to a broad audiance to sell and to be able to break even or make a razor thin margin of profit

but if you think you can do it better or think the german version needs an indepth fact laden disssertation to right these "most grievous" errors feel free to contact them and freelance

if not stop blowing up at people and having unresonable expectations about what they may or may not know about a home computer and its library from 25 years ago

[hydr0x]

You should have done a fact check really. The German edition is completely revised. They even went so far as to alter the occasional UK-biased praise of certain games and systems. Several features have additional info boxes and the like focusing on the German market. On the other hand, they dropped parts of features (like the collector's guide checklists). The mag also has a few newly written pieces. So it is definitely more than a cheap translation.

Wow, OK so that makes it even worse, the Germans don't know their 8-bit video gaming stuff, they obviously never heard of Happy Computer or ASM for research?

No, it doesn't make it worse, as knowledge does not directly result in spotting every mistake. You obviously have never come into the luxury of proof-reading an academic paper, or you'd know this. Besides, the team doing the German edition is not that detached from your precious Happy Computer and ASM. If you had bothered to check some facts before spewing forth your usual vitriol, you'd have noticed that at least the editor-in-chief actually has close ties to the old ASM and Happy Computer staff, as can even be seen and heard publicly in the Spieleveteranen podcast. In fact, at least two of those (Winnie Forster and Heinrich Lenhardt) have actually contributed to this German edition.

[hydr0x]

You should have done a fact check really. The German edition is completely revised.

That's interesting—and rare. I guess, then, there was an editor working alongside the translator (or one person doing both).

Actually, even better. Apparently there have been one editor-in-chief and 5 or 6 (sub)editors working on the German edition. I have further investigated the translation as well, it is actually done by the editors themselves.

You can actually (with the help of Google Translate) get insight into the production process as they wrote a Making Of series:

http://www.gamersglobal.de/news/64000/m ... eftplanung
http://www.gamersglobal.de/news/64417/m ... kalisieren
http://www.gamersglobal.de/news/64656/m ... -titelbild

The second part is the one explaining the necessary changes for the local market, should be an interesting read for you Craig and Darran.

[kleinemaus]

OK what you guys are saying is:
Matthew Smith is an unknown programmer (nobody had ever heard of him in USA or Japan), who wrote three obscure games (those games of Mathew Smith are unknown in USA and Japan) on a little known computer (Timex flopped in USA).

BTW, Alternate Reality The Dungeon scored very highly in ZZAP 64 magazine, and ZZAP 64 was a best selling UK gaming magazine covering games for the C64.

no they are saying that outside your frame of reference phillip price and gary gilbertson are virtually unknown
and that you are far to zealous about a small mistake like that
not everybody has intimate knowledge of the A8's or is even interested in them ( amazing i know )

and a magazine has to cater to a broad audiance to sell and to be able to break even or make a razor thin margin of profit

but if you think you can do it better or think the german version needs an indepth fact laden disssertation to right these "most grievous" errors feel free to contact them and freelance

if not stop blowing up at people and having unresonable expectations about what they may or may not know about a home computer and its library from 25 years ago

It's the other way around, only to this little UK based forum Philip Price and Gary Gilbertson are unknown to American and worldwide A8 users they are not.