Official Feedback Issue 98

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DreamcastRIP
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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by DreamcastRIP » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:06 am

Rory Milne wrote:... History of Space Harrier – my favourite bit of the mag this month, it looked beautiful, and I learned a lot about a genuine classic that I didn’t know all that much about previously. The screenshots peppered throughout, the box outs, and chronological journey through the various sequels added rather than distracted, giving the piece an almost Zen-like balance between words and pictures.
Really? I regrettably found the Space Harrier article to be one of the poorest features in Retro Gamer for quite some time.

Mistake #01: The 32X conversion wasn't the first arcade perfect home release of the game - chiefly because it was letterboxed

Mistake #02: The opening paragraph implies R-Type existed around late 1985 - it was released in mid-1987

Also...

The 'Flights of Fantasy' boxout states, "This wouldn't be a complete guide to Space Harrier if...". If it was intended to be a complete guide to the game then it should have included a 'A Brief History Of..." page like is often done for "The Making Of..." articles (see p.29, for example). All we got was passing references to a couple of the home conversions which were released which was very lacklustre. If it was intended as a 'complete guide' to the game then where are these descriptions of all the home versions that were released, the version included as part of the Yu Suzuki Game Works Vol.1 book plus GD-ROM pack for Dreamcast and the stunning recent homebrew release for the Atari XL/XE which the magazine reviewed not so long ago? :(

Overall, I thought the current issue a pretty good one though.
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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by ChipTune » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:24 am

Space Harrier is utter utter garbage so I am not surprised the content was 'lacklustre' :wink:


Seriously though Space Harrier is awful, after reading the article I went and played it on several systems, including MAME and also on my Mega Drive collection on xbox 360 (the arcade version is an extra).. the game looks and plays horrible.. it made me feel sick looking at the horrible garish colours and nasty sprite scaling whatsamerthingy.. grim.
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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by thevulture » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:44 am

ChipTune wrote:Space Harrier is utter utter garbage so I am not surprised the content was 'lacklustre' :wink:


Seriously though Space Harrier is awful, after reading the article I went and played it on several systems, including MAME and also on my Mega Drive collection on xbox 360 (the arcade version is an extra).. the game looks and plays horrible.. it made me feel sick looking at the horrible garish colours and nasty sprite scaling whatsamerthingy.. grim.
Whilst good part of Space Harrier is somewhat lost, when you take away the hydraulic part of the coin op, think it's little harsh to call the sprite scaling 'nasty', it took home hardware until the 32 Bit age (32X, Saturn etc) from versions i've seen, to really come close to matching the arcade hardware as for the colour scheme, it does say 'Welcome to the FANTASY zone', hence i'd expect such vibrant looking Alien worlds.

Each to their own tastes and maybe you had to have been there at the time, arcade wise, for the game to have any appeal.

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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by thevulture » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:54 am

ChipTune wrote:Space Harrier is utter utter garbage so I am not surprised the content was 'lacklustre' :wink:


Seriously though Space Harrier is awful, after reading the article I went and played it on several systems, including MAME and also on my Mega Drive collection on xbox 360 (the arcade version is an extra).. the game looks and plays horrible.. it made me feel sick looking at the horrible garish colours and nasty sprite scaling whatsamerthingy.. grim.
If , as a home computer owner, back in 1985, you could have given me a machine that could match Sega's Super Scaler' arcade boards (upto 32,000 sprites and displaying upto 32,000 colours, if internet specs are correct), i'd sold a kidney.

Space Harrier's visuals are a feast of the mind-Easter Island statues, giant mushrooms, Dragons etc etc.Bright, colourful and fast.Gameplay, pretty much twitch based in nature as you dodge incoming fire, scenary etc whilst getting off your own shots.

After reading the article, what were you expecting? :?

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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by retrojc » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:37 am

Rory Milne wrote:
Making of Metal Slug – an incredibly interesting piece this, and the feature looked fantastic throughout.
Can't agree more, any Metal Slug info is a good'un with me, was surprised another Metal Gear article was done after the last one. Having new information, and a very rare interview made it for me. Basically the only reason I bought the issue this month!

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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by Rory Milne » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:53 am

Rory Milne wrote:... History of Space Harrier – my favourite bit of the mag this month, it looked beautiful, and I learned a lot about a genuine classic that I didn’t know all that much about previously. The screenshots peppered throughout, the box outs, and chronological journey through the various sequels added rather than distracted, giving the piece an almost Zen-like balance between words and pictures.
DreamcastRIP wrote:I regrettably found the Space Harrier article to be one of the poorest features in Retro Gamer for quite some time.

Mistake #01: The 32X conversion wasn't the first arcade perfect home release of the game - chiefly because it was letterboxed

Mistake #02: The opening paragraph implies R-Type existed around late 1985 - it was released in mid-1987
The letter boxing on the 32X port never bothered me personally, so the "arcade-perfect port" description didn't either. I have to say the mis-mention of R-Type didn't impact my overall enjoyment of the piece in the slightest.
DreamcastRIP wrote:The 'Flights of Fantasy' boxout states, "This wouldn't be a complete guide to Space Harrier if...". If it was intended to be a complete guide to the game then it should have included a 'A Brief History Of..." page like is often done for "The Making Of..." articles (see p.29, for example). All we got was passing references to a couple of the home conversions which were released which was very lacklustre. If it was intended as a 'complete guide' to the game then where are these descriptions of all the home versions that were released, the version included as part of the Yu Suzuki Game Works Vol.1 book plus GD-ROM pack for Dreamcast
Pretty much what you've described was already done in the Coin-op Capers - Space Harrier feature a while back, so I'd imagine that's why a home conversions comparison wasn't done for the History of piece. It was reprinted in the most recent Retro Gamer collection, which unfortunately has sold out now, or I'd definitely recommend it you.
DreamcastRIP wrote:the stunning recent homebrew release for the Atari XL/XE which the magazine reviewed not so long ago? :(

Well as you say, it was reviewed in the mag not so long ago so was unlikely to be covered again so soon.

All of which is by the by. The History of Space Harrier was my favourite bit of the mag for the reasons I gave. It's a pity it wasn't to your liking, but at least you enjoyed the rest of the mag.

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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by DreamcastRIP » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:04 am

Rory Milne wrote: Pretty much what you've described was already done in the Coin-op Capers - Space Harrier feature a while back, so I'd imagine that's why a home conversions comparison wasn't done for the History of piece. It was reprinted in the most recent Retro Gamer collection, which unfortunately has sold out now, or I'd definitely recommend it you.
Good point. My bad for not recalling that Coin-op Capers feature a while back :oops: . Either way, it would have made more sense if the sentence, "This wouldn't be a complete guide to Space Harrier if..." had have been worded differently.

The R-Type blunder didn't of course ruin the article for me. It was more a case of me being aghast at seeing such a schoolboy error in the magazine.

Thank you for the suggestion on how to get hold of that back issue but I already have it as I've bought every issue for the past several years are also a subscriber. :)
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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:01 pm

See this is the problem with mistakes in the mag. If I make them myself, then there's not really anyone else to pick up on them.
In a perfect world we'd have a historian to check things like that, or would be able to check everything in the mag 10 times over. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.
I was kicking myself when I saw the R-Type mistake, but there was nothing I could do once the mag was back. As for things like arcade perfect, this wouldn't be a complete guide phrases. I think personally you're taking the written word a little too literally ;) I'm more surprised that no one has picked up on the fact that the opening spread is completely impossible (Space Harrier dragon with Space Harrier 3D sprites). I mean. That's not even a real game, let alone one that has the date wrong ;)

Considering we've run a coin-op capers on Space Harrier, I felt the article included was different enough to feature. I would say that though. I wrote it :D And let's face it there's no arcade perfect version of Space Harrier. Not in terms of replicating it (big stick, hydraulic chair) as you would have experienced it in the arcades.
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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by thevulture » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:10 pm

'Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.'

And thank godness we don't.How boring would that be?.

Mistakes are why pencils have those rubber bits on the end and Tippex came about, in yea olde days...right?.Now it's all search engines and spell checkers.Bah. :D

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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by psj3809 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:12 pm

thevulture wrote:If , as a home computer owner, back in 1985, you could have given me a machine that could match Sega's Super Scaler' arcade boards (upto 32,000 sprites and displaying upto 32,000 colours, if internet specs are correct), i'd sold a kidney.

Space Harrier's visuals are a feast of the mind-Easter Island statues, giant mushrooms, Dragons etc etc.Bright, colourful and fast.Gameplay, pretty much twitch based in nature as you dodge incoming fire, scenary etc whilst getting off your own shots.

After reading the article, what were you expecting? :?
Again its one of those 'you had to be there' type moments isnt it. When Space Harrier came out it was stunning, specially that hydraulic cabinet which you could sit in to play the game. I remember being over the moon when i saw the speed of the Speccy version, loved it. To get Space Harrier in 48k was brilliant.

But again its like a 16 year old X-Box fanatic seeing Out Run or Doom for the first time. They'll probably be laughing about it at how bad they both look and dont care that when they first came out they were both cutting edge. Same for the Atari VCS.

If i see a 30 year old game which 'might' look crap i dont really care as i know retro games are often about the gameplay not garish or monochrome graphics or poor tunes/sound effects. I go back and play games like Bomb Jack on Mame/Speccy because the gameplay is superb and of course theres the nostalgia factor.

Always a shame to hear someone say 'that space harrier is crap...' and similar views.

As for any mistakes in the mag, bring back the Trainspotter Award ! Please !!

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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by DreamcastRIP » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:23 pm

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:See this is the problem with mistakes in the mag. If I make them myself, then there's not really anyone else to pick up on them.
In a perfect world we'd have a historian to check things like that, or would be able to check everything in the mag 10 times over. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.
I was kicking myself when I saw the R-Type mistake, but there was nothing I could do once the mag was back. As for things like arcade perfect, this wouldn't be a complete guide phrases. I think personally you're taking the written word a little too literally ;) I'm more surprised that no one has picked up on the fact that the opening spread is completely impossible (Space Harrier dragon with Space Harrier 3D sprites). I mean. That's not even a real game, let alone one that has the date wrong ;)

Considering we've run a coin-op capers on Space Harrier, I felt the article included was different enough to feature. I would say that though. I wrote it :D And let's face it there's no arcade perfect version of Space Harrier. Not in terms of replicating it (big stick, hydraulic chair) as you would have experienced it in the arcades.
You may have a point there in sometimes taking things too literally! I suppose for some of us who lived through the 8-bit era the phrase 'arcade perfect' had a kind of mythology about it as it was pretty hard back then as a Speccy/C=64/CPC owner to envisage playing technically flawless home conversions of the top arcade coin-ops of the mid to late '80s. Consequently, 'arcade perfect' became something one would heavily scrutinise games for with those titles that claimed to be so once the technology became available in the home that made such a thing possible.

For me at least, I consider it a moot point that a home system conversion game can or can't ever be considered arcade perfect as a result of it not having the coin-op's hydraulic chair, proprietary controller, etc. Only classing a home conversion as 'arcade perfect' if it came supplied with an hydraulic chair would really be taking the term too literally! Heck, by that measure, even if the Konix Multisystem had have been released along with that crazy-looking chair then none of its games could potentially be considered arcade perfect either because the chair wouldn't be the very same type of chair that the arcade machine had!
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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by CraigGrannell » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:14 am

retrojc wrote:
jdanddiet wrote:I just bought some for my iphone, they're £2.99 each. Not a helluva lot cheaper than a sub.
no not at all, I know how expansive (or not) it is to covert to ePud, and how expensive it is to print. Takinbg the censored that pricing.
Just to pick up on this point, which comes up a lot here and elsewhere, people really should understand that most of the income from magazines is to fund actually making the magazine. It pays for the editorial team, the designers, the freelancers. The app economy makes some people think magazines should be about a quid, but do that—not least during a transition from print to digital—and you'll see pretty much every magazine beyond hugely popular ones (i.e. celeb mags) go to the wall rather rapidly.

Print subs are a slightly different consideration. They are effectively designed as a lock-in—a means of getting regular revenue, versus the rather more random sales you get on the newsstand. To that end, they're priced lower, but are therefore less profitable. Frankly, though, I think it's a pity if people think there's not three quid of value in an issue of Retro Gamer. Three quid gets you, what, a pint? A sandwich? But it's too much for a magazine?

As for the issue itself, having read all of it now, nice to get some insight into Metal Slug beyond conjecture. Also great to see games like Splat! get a piece in the mag.
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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by jdanddiet » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:20 am

I agree and thanks!
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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by thevulture » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:55 am

' Frankly, though, I think it's a pity if people think there's not three quid of value in an issue of Retro Gamer. Three quid gets you, what, a pint? A sandwich? But it's too much for a magazine?'

Very good point there, Craig.

The (very) few times i've bought Gamestm, since cancelling my sub, soon as i take it upto the counter to be scanned, woman always utters the immortal 'Five Quid? For a magazine?'...think i'd be less :oops: having thrown down a...ahem...'Jazz magazine'.

RG, even on a 'quiet' issue, feature wise, always manages to justify the price tag and then some.

Even though i'm now an iPad owner, still want my physical copies of the magazine, only ever bought the 1st copy of the 'e-mag'/DVD thing, something about print material i hold dear.

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Re: Official Feedback Issue 98

Post by Gabe » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:32 am

thevulture wrote:'Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.'

And thank godness we don't.How boring would that be?.

Mistakes are why pencils have those rubber bits on the end and Tippex came about, in yea olde days...right?.Now it's all search engines and spell checkers.Bah. :D
It wouldn't be boring at all because, by definition, a perfect world wouldn't have the concept of boredom.

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