Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

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Dunjohn
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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by Dunjohn » Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:32 pm

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:
fozmcfc wrote:
Maybe I'm being cynical, but the editor seems to have a huge love of Nintendo and it's current systems and I guess, he could like all of us get a bit carried away over something we love.
It's more to do with the fact that Nintendo more than any other publisher at the moment is bringing out games based on older franchises and when you tie the covers in with those games sales of the magazine significantly rise and then stay stable (ie the newer readers who may have bought it because they see Mario on the cover actually like the magazine and continue to but it, even when it features an Oli Frey cover or something 8-bit).

As I've said countless times in the past, if I actually started to force my own personal gaming preferences on you there would be massive gaps in gaming's history because the only things that had come out would have been Strider, shoot-em-ups and the Amstrad CPC.
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Stevearcade
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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by Stevearcade » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:39 pm

Can we have less Nintendo love for a while?...

Why :? ?

They're one of the most consistently innovative, creative and pioneering video games companies ever. They changed the face of the Video Arcade with Donkey Kong, then home video gaming with the NES and Super Mario Bros, and they did so some 25 years ago, which makes them Retro and all the more likely to be featured in Retro Gamer Magazine. Their game development is consistently masterful, they have a huge list of great gaming franchises that can't be rivalled by many, they also develop very progressive hardware (except maybe the gamecube, which was relatively run of the mill, although nevertheless a great console).

Face it, Nintendo is huge, probably the biggest. And they're not all angry and serious like other games developers and consoles, they're bright and colourful and happy and they really have been part of the family since 1985.

Frankly I wonder if we're really giving them enough love.
:D

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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by thevulture » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:48 pm

merman wrote:
Dunjohn wrote:I think Retro Gamer should just publish a single, 5000-page issue containing ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING. Then nobody will be complaining.
Yes they would.

"This issue is too heavy to read comfortably in the bath/on the bus/sat on the throne"

"I can't find the article I really wanted to read"

"I'm from Dewey, Cheatum and Howe, we are suing on behalf of all the freelancers who have been worked to death..."
:wink: You missed out all the hate both :The cover and the letters page would get as well., also the grumbling about too much/too little homebre, why was'nt my comment in the forum section, why was'nt my......etc etc.Human nature-gotta love it.

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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by The Laird » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:58 am

Stevearcade wrote:Can we have less Nintendo love for a while?...

Why :? ?

They're one of the most consistently innovative, creative and pioneering video games companies ever. They changed the face of the Video Arcade with Donkey Kong, then home video gaming with the NES and Super Mario Bros, and they did so some 25 years ago, which makes them Retro and all the more likely to be featured in Retro Gamer Magazine. Their game development is consistently masterful, they have a huge list of great gaming franchises that can't be rivalled by many, they also develop very progressive hardware (except maybe the gamecube, which was relatively run of the mill, although nevertheless a great console).

Face it, Nintendo is huge, probably the biggest. And they're not all angry and serious like other games developers and consoles, they're bright and colourful and happy and they really have been part of the family since 1985.

Frankly I wonder if we're really giving them enough love.
:D
I fail to see what was ground breaking about Donkey Kong, it was just a platformer and there were lots of those around at that time. I wouldn't say they changed video gaming with the NES either, i might have sold incredibly well in America (mainly thanks to their unfair business practices) but it only sold 600,000 in the UK which is hardly a success. The Megadrive out sold the SNES here by 2:1 and the N64 and Gamecube were not a massive success here either. In fact the only retro Nintendo that did out do the competition in this part of the world was the Gameboy, which was mainly down to the price rather than superior tech. The amount of coverage Nintendo seem to get in the magazine dosn't really match or reflect their market share in the UK over the years, the amount of Spectrum coverage however which many say is too much does.

Now don't even get me started on their importance in the retro community today, exactly how much homebrew development do you see for their machines exactly?

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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by FatTrucker » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:18 pm

Special editions like last month aside, this is a conversation that never really goes away. When the mag ramp up 8 bit coverage, console lovers complain that its too focussed on the 80's home micros, when an issue is more console specific or covering 16 and 32 bit stuff, the 8 bit micro lovers complain, couple of months with Nintendo articles, its detractors want to know why, same for Sega and so on and so on.
Overall the mag strikes a healthy balance which varies from issue to issue and seems largely dependent on what gets submitted. If no-one is submitting relevant and publishable articles on 8 bit stuff, UK specific micro stuff etc then the mag can't print it. Simple as that.

As far as significant publishers are concerned, there's no reason the mag shouldn't get involved in celebrating, promoting and otherwise including itself in any well publicised anniversaries as it did with Nintendo last month and with Sega this month. It is afterall a commercial publication with a real need to maintain and extend its market and associating itself with any big publisher events is an excellent idea.

As one example, I have absolutely no interest in the homebrew section, homebrew doesn't interest me, I'm not interested in playing new games on old machines as Retro gaming for me is largely about the nostalgia (certain classics and favourites which I still play aside), I simply don't have any interest in playing newly developed games on old hardware. Conversely I love playing remakes and re-releases on new hardware, a like and dislike that maybe seem a little at odds with each other but we like what we like.
At no point though do I think that the mag should wind back its homebrew coverage or reduce it to cover more things that I find of interest, I would also hate to see the sections on modern remakes and releases extended any further to replace other retro content.

Retrogaming isn't a pure thing, its experienced and enjoyed by lots of different people from lots of different places in lots of different ways and spans several different generations of gamers that all view it from a different perspective, and all of them will have fond or foul memories of various different publishers and manufacturers. The more of them the mag caters to the better.

This might mean from time to time certain content seems a little diluted or pushed out, but then the nature of RG means its only one more issue away from redressing the balance and covering something you like in more detail (great article on unreleased Speccy stuff this issue).

The one thing the mag (and Darran) can't be accused of is resting on its laurels and just churning out the same thematic format every month, year after year or being overly focussed in one direction or another or at one publisher or another. Darran has introduced (and continues to introduce) new sections, features, and articles pretty much every year, some have been very successful, others not so much, some are universally enjoyed while others leave readers distinctly and vehemently polarised, overall its a something for everyone and everything for no-one deal. I've never come across another mag that's so open to user feedback and directly acting on it TBH with some stuff appearing directly as a result of submitted ideas.

As far as making the mag content reflective of market share over the years I have no idea how that would even be workable let alone profitable or condusive to making it an interesting read every month.
Its also worth pointing out that much as we might have loved them (and in many cases continue to love them) the 8 bit micros over here only had a popular commercial lifespan of a few years in the 1980's, while they were undoubtedly more popular than the NES and Master System in the UK, they only represent one short period of gaming history in the UK before the mass market was even mass market.

To deliberately shift the focus of the mag away from broad but inclusive content over to a more specific focus on the UK gaming scene in the 80's above anything else would IMO be commercial suicide for the mag even if for its final few months it provided something akin to Mana for those of us who grew up in the UK in the 80's. :wink:
I would still rather see RG doing well commercially but being a bit hit and miss for the individual than becoming too focussed and disappearing without a trace.

Re the Nintendo thing, its getting rather old now. While it may not be a company that's produced games that everyone loves, its place in gaming history is set whether you love them, loath them or are completely indifferent (I sit largely in the latter category) to them, their inclusion in the mag at various points is as appropriate as any other big publisher. If people want more 8 bit coverage or system specific stuff then its rather reliant on someone actually submitting articles of sufficient quality on said subjects to be comissioned for inclusion as far as I'm aware. I can remember a time not so long ago when the prevalent cry on the forum was no more Manic Miner, no more Matthew Smith, as the view was that the mag was giving far too much focus to that developer, that game and/or that era. Like I said, the view changes from month to month and year to year dependent on the current trend in the content. As Douglas Adams would say...Don't Panic! :wink:

I would also like to apologise sincerely for the length of the above post.....seriously if you can't be ar*ed to read through it and have skipped to the bottom, you haven't missed much, its mostly waffle. :)
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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by Mayhem » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:54 pm

Jagfest_UK wrote:I fail to see what was ground breaking about Donkey Kong, it was just a platformer and there were lots of those around at that time.
There were lots of platform games in 1981? Riiiiiiight... I can only think of notably Space Panic really before DK came along.
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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by DreamcastRIP » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:35 pm

nakamura wrote:
dubchaser wrote:Whilst I do like Nintendo I'm not that interested in reading about them. Sega does it for me. They had more balls than Nintendo which for me is too cutesy.
Replace more balls with a crap business sense and you are about spot on.
I'd guess most people would be more interested in buying a games magazine that focuses on games rather than business models. Just saying... :mrgreen:
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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by the_hawk » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:06 am

Mayhem wrote:
Jagfest_UK wrote:I fail to see what was ground breaking about Donkey Kong, it was just a platformer and there were lots of those around at that time.
There were lots of platform games in 1981? Riiiiiiight... I can only think of notably Space Panic really before DK came along.
Don't forget Crazy Climber too, and of course, er um....
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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by Mayhem » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:54 am

I had considered Crazy Climber, but it isn't a platformer in the same sense Space Panic and DK are, so I didn't choose to mention it. But yes, I'd be fascinated to see what other platformers Jagfest can mention that were out before that time...
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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by DigitalDuck » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:25 pm

You're missing the point. Platform games were around in 1981, and doing something that's been done before isn't innovative.
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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by nakamura » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:32 pm

Jagfest_UK wrote: The amount of coverage Nintendo seem to get in the magazine dosn't really match or reflect their market share in the UK over the years, the amount of Spectrum coverage however which many say is too much does.
Nintendo may not have had the lions share but games like Mario 3, Super Mario World, Yoshis Island, Mario 64, Metroid, Zelda 3 LA, Ocarina, Starfox, F-Zero and so on are considered among the best of each genre so coverage is inevitable.
Jagfest_UK wrote: Now don't even get me started on their importance in the retro community today, exactly how much homebrew development do you see for their machines exactly?
Homebrew is a tiny part of the retro community. Also with the quality of games on most Nintendo consoles people don't need to turn to other sources. Though I am not denying that homebrew isn't a good thing.
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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by The Laird » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:44 pm

DigitalDuck wrote:You're missing the point. Platform games were around in 1981, and doing something that's been done before isn't innovative.
Exactly my point, thankyou.

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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by Havantgottaclue » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:08 pm

Jagfest_UK wrote:
DigitalDuck wrote:You're missing the point. Platform games were around in 1981, and doing something that's been done before isn't innovative.
Exactly my point, thankyou.
Is it exactly your point though? I thought you said there were "lots" of them? Two or three isn't lots. And DK is surely the most interesting of the ones mentioned.
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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by The Laird » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:40 pm

Havantgottaclue wrote:
Jagfest_UK wrote:
DigitalDuck wrote:You're missing the point. Platform games were around in 1981, and doing something that's been done before isn't innovative.
Exactly my point, thankyou.
Is it exactly your point though? I thought you said there were "lots" of them? Two or three isn't lots. And DK is surely the most interesting of the ones mentioned.
I said around that time, I didn't say before :wink:

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Re: Can we have less Nintendo love for a while

Post by Mayhem » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:23 pm

Yes, and I imagine most of them were heavily influenced by the success that "Donkey Kong" had. I think you fail to get through your skull here that a game such as "Donkey Kong" was quite inspirational in the concepts it brought to the fledgling genre at that time, and hence a wealth of similar titles, many of which are excellent games in their own right ("Miner 2049er" which begat "Manic Miner" for example), spawned because of its success. In the same way a slew of kart games appeared when SMK was a success! Sure, we can look back in hindsight and say that they don't appear that innovative as many other genres used the same concepts in time, but back in 1981, please show (and DigitalDuck, you can join in too!) a platform game that exhibited the following characteristics:

- the ability for the main character to jump (something you can't do in "Space Panic"), and to traverse from one platform to another
- more than one screen design in a "loop"
- differing objectives across the screens (you don't have to reach the top on screen four)
- collecting an item to turn the tables on your opponents (admittedly that was probably inspired by Pac-Man)

"Jump Bug" took things a little further later in the year by having a scrolling screen, although every level isn't that much different in design and look from each other. Personally the first point above is the most pertinent and important of the lot. Nintendo's game got there first. You might not like "Donkey Kong", fair enough, but to deny that it wasn't innovative and set standards for how platform games were made in the years following is ostrich-head-in-the-sand like...
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