Official Issue 88 Feedback

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stvd
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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by stvd » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:21 am

Mayhem wrote:I have to admit I'm a little surprised by other people remembering trackball Combat School.
I remember it being a trackball game. I don't know why, must be through pictures, as I've never seen one in the flesh.
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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:10 am

I never saw a joystick version of Combat school either. Only trackball in my local arcade.
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Rev. Stuart Campbell
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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by Rev. Stuart Campbell » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:23 pm

stvd wrote:
Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote:Crystal Castles is perfectly fine with a joystick or keys - it's a four-directional maze game.
Really? Yes you can play it with a joystick but you wont get very far and as for it being "four-directional"??????? :lol:
Er, it is. There's no point in Crystal Castles where you can move in more than the four compass directions. (Relative to Bentley Bear, that is.) Technically you can go up and down, of course, but you can't move him in that direction. You either move in one of the four normal directions and it happens to go up a ramp, or you stand still on an elevator. So the controls are entirely four-directional.

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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by stvd » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:55 pm

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See that bit with the skeleton?
You can move in more than 4 directions.

Unless of course you consider Missile Commands movement as 4-way also (diagonal being a series of left,up,left,up movements).
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Rev. Stuart Campbell
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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by Rev. Stuart Campbell » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:10 pm

stvd wrote:See that bit with the skeleton?
You can move in more than 4 directions.
You can't. What Bentley actually does in those (extremely rare) bits where there's an open block of gems is move left then up, or down then left, or whatever - it's a zigzag, not a diagonal. If you can show me a screenshot where Bentley has collected two diagonally-adjacent gems (eg the ones highlighted in green below) without collecting the ones in "between", you win.

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(ie if we call the higher of those two North and the lower South, there's no way Bentley could get them both one after the other without also collecting East or West.)

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Sir Hilary Bray
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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by Sir Hilary Bray » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:53 pm

When is this out in the shops? if it's out now, I might pop down to the Co-Op in a minute.

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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by BennyTheGreek » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:18 pm

had a lovely little giggle to myself when I realised what the date is in a couple of days.....anyone else found it???? :D

Took me right back to the good old days of April computer magazines......

Well done a brilliant issue.....loved the firebird article........

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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by stvd » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:01 pm

Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote:(ie if we call the higher of those two North and the lower South, there's no way Bentley could get them both one after the other without also collecting East or West.)
I'm almost inclined to agree here. Almost.
In some levels there are areas where it's possible to run Bentley in a circle.
It may, under scrutiny, be a series of left - down - left - down's but the fact is, it's designed to be played with a trackball.
Imagine if you were playing it with a 4-way joystick and trying to do
the "diagonals". It would be impossible to play.



ps I'm still going to try and get those two gems! :)
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Rev. Stuart Campbell
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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by Rev. Stuart Campbell » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:19 pm

stvd wrote:Imagine if you were playing it with a 4-way joystick and trying to do
the "diagonals". It would be impossible to play.
Is there even such a thing as a 4-way joystick that won't do diagonals?

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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by stvd » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:27 pm

Yeah, you can get restrictor plates to fit to arcade sticks. I believe.
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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by martyg » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:35 pm

Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote:
stvd wrote:
Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote:Meh. Trackball control is horrible, especially with a giant one like Missile Command's.... Give me a mouse or a touch screen any day.
No, it's essential. Try playing Crystal Castles with anything else.
Crystal Castles is perfectly fine with a joystick or keys. It's a four-directional maze game. The only game I've ever really liked using a trackball in was Tehkan World Cup.
Stuart, I have to say that and your last post on trak balls is just so wrong on so many levels. Joysticks (and mice) in no way handle the large spin, minute precision start stop motions, or any of the other vast palm and finger trak-ball tricks good players of these games typically use. Not to mention you just can't reproduce the analog nature of these arcade controls, which goes back to the decay control methods commonly employed on them. The type of response needed is just not there. Not to also mention that in some of the games, the challenge of the controls are just as much a part of the game - similar to the challenge of Defender's. Crystal Castles, Centipede, Missile Command all suck with a joystick to about anybody that grew up playing these games in the arcade, and a mouse just has partial similarity in control.

I understand there will be some people, just as yourself, that sound like they more grew up in the later JAMMA era and just don't care to understand the differences (at least it looked that way in your bio). Much like there's a generation gap between those who love thumb pads for anything and those of us who prefer joysticks. I just don't see the logic or the accuracy in that viewpoint regarding trak balls though.

Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote:
stvd wrote:Imagine if you were playing it with a 4-way joystick and trying to do
the "diagonals". It would be impossible to play.
Is there even such a thing as a 4-way joystick that won't do diagonals?
Yes, the very definition of 4-way joysticks in fact. They've always been specifically employed in coin-op designs because of their inability to hit the diagonals, something that 8-way joysticks are more traditionally used for.
Marty

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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by joystick » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:12 am

Just got e-mail from Pixel Mags this morning that RG issue #88 was ready for download to my iPad. That is like the highlight of the month! :)

Super-awesome cover indeed!
Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote: Is there even such a thing as a 4-way joystick that won't do diagonals?
Yes, square restrictor plates turned 45 degrees will only allow up/down/left/right movements. :)
Joystick.net - Retro gaming news and reviews

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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by Rev. Stuart Campbell » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:29 am

You can MAKE a joystick only do four directions, obviously. But it's not their natural state, so why on Earth would anyone have modified a Crystal Castles one in such a way? (Not that it would have mattered much, since it's a game of four-way movement.)

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Rev. Stuart Campbell
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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by Rev. Stuart Campbell » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:31 am

martyg wrote:Stuart, I have to say that and your last post on trak balls is just so wrong on so many levels. Joysticks (and mice) in no way handle the large spin, minute precision start stop motions, or any of the other vast palm and finger trak-ball tricks good players of these games typically use.
Er, you know that a mouse IS essentially just a trackball, yes?

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Re: Official Issue 88 Feedback

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:54 am

This is in danger of derailing the thread, so please create a thread elsewhere. Thanks.
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