Issue 80 feedback

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Timothy Lumsden
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by Timothy Lumsden » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:24 pm

firstly - really enjoyed the the 5200 article - just to let Marty know it was well received

however, I do agree with the above be it 4 or 6 homebrew titles - I think it really didn't fit with the RG spirit of a truly retro top ten.

otherwise, I look forward to more from MartyG

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SirClive
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by SirClive » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:33 pm

martyg wrote:It's not "perfect 10 at the time of the release", it's the 10 best games from the 5200 library that someone new to the system should get to play on it. It's a retrospective list based in 2010, not a 1984 advertisement.
I agree. I read them to find out which games I should try on that system and if that means a few homebrews are thrown in then I have no problem with that.
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martyg
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by martyg » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:51 pm

Gabe wrote: Just to chip in on this issue, I can understand from your response why you chose the games you did, but - to me at least - it just doesn't feel in the spirit of what RG should be about.
I would disagree. I feel it's exactly in the spirit of the magazine. The magazine covers old games, old consoles, old games on new consoles, and new games on old consoles, and even new games in old series on new consoles. (insert computer as well).
Given that people have had 20+ years to get to grips with the system it's no surprise that there are games better than what was released originally; to me that isn't really a particularly impressive feat.
It's not about impressive feat. It's about giving 10 games on a vintage platform people should try and play.
RG should be celebrating the games and systems of yesteryear, and the associated stories and nostalgia associated with them, and I don't think including new games really fits with that.
I would disagree again. These are newer games for old consoles - consoles of yesteryear. Still fits in to that. A newer game playing on an old system is still celebrating that system. A newer game commercialy released for that system is still a part of that system's library. Once again, it's not like covering some little flash ripoff of shareware remake which is completely irrelevant to the actual game or console.
And not only that, but there is a clear distinction between homebrew/indie releases elsewhere in the mag, indicating - again, to me - that there is a clear demarcation between the old and the new - and including 'the new' in a Perfect 10 seems to go against that.
Please don't confuse the great idea of the homebrew "scene" getting it's own special coverage area in the magazine as anything other than what it is - a feature in the mag focusing on the latest news of the homebrew scene. AFAIK it's not to ghettoize it from the rest of the magazine any more than any other special content area is. Homebrews, modern titles, modern versions of old games, latest new games in long running franchises, etc. all regularly appear in the magazine throughout it's various areas - even thumbing through my collection of the mag (which I have going back to the very first issue) validates this. Including fully produced games for a retro console - that happen to be more recently released, in a 10 must play games section for that console is entirely in the spirit of what the mag is about. And what the focus of a 10 games to play section is. You guys are trying to project guidelines that just aren't there. And if anything I write or submit was not in the "spirit" of the magazine or not the right fit for what's needed, Darran would make no bones about telling me since everything I submit goes through him.
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Mayhem
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by Mayhem » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:35 pm

The Vectrex article had five original and five homebrew titles in the "Perfect Ten", although that was partly because there were only 28 original games to choose from. I don't recall anyone complaining about this at the time, so odd that it is happening now for the Atari 5200.
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Gabe
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by Gabe » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:11 pm

martyg wrote:I would disagree. I feel it's exactly in the spirit of the magazine. The magazine covers old games, old consoles, old games on new consoles, and new games on old consoles, and even new games in old series on new consoles. (insert computer as well).
We'll agree to disagree; I don't think it is in the spirit of the mag.
I would disagree again. These are newer games for old consoles - consoles of yesteryear. Still fits in to that. A newer game playing on an old system is still celebrating that system. A newer game commercialy released for that system is still a part of that system's library. Once again, it's not like covering some little flash ripoff of shareware remake which is completely irrelevant to the actual game or console.
Again, we'll disagree. Being part of the a system's library doesn't really mean much; it's as irrelevant to the system's heritage at this point in time as a remake on another system. I'll add the disclaimer here that this is my opinion.
Please don't confuse the great idea of the homebrew "scene" getting it's own special coverage area in the magazine as anything other than what it is - a feature in the mag focusing on the latest news of the homebrew scene. AFAIK it's not to ghettoize it from the rest of the magazine any more than any other special content area is. Homebrews, modern titles, modern versions of old games, latest new games in long running franchises, etc. all regularly appear in the magazine throughout it's various areas - even thumbing through my collection of the mag (which I have going back to the very first issue) validates this.
I've been a reader since issue 1 too for what that's worth. Out of interest has a homebrew game *ever* had a feature outside of the homebrew area of the mag? Genuine question - I don't think one has? And the magazine has definite sections - current news/editorial at the front - retro content middle - reviews/homebrew at the end.
Including fully produced games for a retro console - that happen to be more recently released, in a 10 must play games section for that console is entirely in the spirit of what the mag is about. And what the focus of a 10 games to play section is. You guys are trying to project guidelines that just aren't there. And if anything I write or submit was not in the "spirit" of the magazine or not the right fit for what's needed, Darran would make no bones about telling me since everything I submit goes through him.
Please don't try and put words in my mouth - my opinion is that new games (I don't care if they are written by a guy in a barn, a worldwide publisher or even a legend from back in the day) are not in the spirit of the magazine.

This is more of a philiosophical discussion rather than based on fact, and we won't agree. Likewise, some others on here will agree with me, some with you. C'est le vie.

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thevulture
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by thevulture » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:20 pm

merman wrote:
Darran@Retro Gamer wrote: Indeed nostalgia can often play a huge part in a game's appeal. For example I think Jet Set Willy is a terrible game - especially compared to Manic Miner - but many out there love it. Swings and roundabouts I guess.
And on the Playground forum they are having an argument about which deserves more coverage - swings or roundabouts.


Actually, you could do a feature on playgrounds in Retro Gamer, interview Keita Takahashi (creator of Katamari Damacy) who has just designed and built a playground in Nottingham... then there's Donald Duck's Playground, an educational game where Donald has to do various jobs to earn money to build a playground for his nephews.



I'll stop now.
He`s (Sadly) getting out of gaming now.You CAN keep an eye on the playground progress though by checking out: gamercity.org for the latest info.

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ipmarks
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by ipmarks » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:26 pm

SirClive wrote:
martyg wrote:It's not "perfect 10 at the time of the release", it's the 10 best games from the 5200 library that someone new to the system should get to play on it. It's a retrospective list based in 2010, not a 1984 advertisement.
I agree. I read them to find out which games I should try on that system and if that means a few homebrews are thrown in then I have no problem with that.
I have no problem with a few either, however the 5200 article only had 4 games out of 10 that were around at the time the machine was originally released. This does seem a little odd, and did mean that an excellent article where I learnt a lot about a machine I know very little about, ended a little flatly, as I didn't learn very much about the games released for it at the time.

Just my opinion, and no criticism of the writing of the article which was great.

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joefish
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by joefish » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:58 pm

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:
joefish wrote:Although it did make a great cover, I also don't think Axelay was good enough to warrant all that attention - whereas Rainbow Islands definitely was.
So why doesn't it warrent the coverage again?
Oh, I dunno, maybe because, or, err...
Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:We won't be doing ultimate guides or let's all plays together any more. The guide is strong enough to stand up on its own...
Oh, OK. Doesn't really matter then if you've just told everyone that you don't plan on doing that again.

I thought I'd already said that for a popular arcade game with multi-platform conversions and a whole game series around it then that's the sort of thing that stands up to a lot of coverage. But a single-platform one-off game - less so. That's all.

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martyg
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by martyg » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:38 pm

ipmarks wrote:This does seem a little odd, and did mean that an excellent article where I learnt a lot about a machine I know very little about, ended a little flatly, as I didn't learn very much about the games released for it at the time.
That's because it was only a 4 pager. Normally I would discuss the game library as a whole within the article itself (which is where I feel it belongs), and with the smaller size to work with I felt it was more important to cover some of the more need to know info regarding the console and its design. Additionally I wanted to contrast the content of the previous article on the 5200 from several years ago. Whether I had 4 pages or 20, I still would never attempt to cover about the release of games at the time for the perfect 10, per my reasons stated several time already.
Marty

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Mayhem
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by Mayhem » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:15 pm

Gabe wrote:I've been a reader since issue 1 too for what that's worth. Out of interest has a homebrew game *ever* had a feature outside of the homebrew area of the mag? Genuine question - I don't think one has? And the magazine has definite sections - current news/editorial at the front - retro content middle - reviews/homebrew at the end.
On a completely obtuse note here, the (now translated) French magazine "Revival" ONLY looks at homebrew on old systems... I guess that would be completely at the wrong end of the street for you now ;)
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Jeremiah Jones
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by Jeremiah Jones » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:47 pm

Kudos on the Excitebike and Atari 5200 pieces. Very much enjoyed them. And a huge thanks for printing my forum comment; it made my day. :)

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ipmarks
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by ipmarks » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:29 am

martyg wrote:
ipmarks wrote:This does seem a little odd, and did mean that an excellent article where I learnt a lot about a machine I know very little about, ended a little flatly, as I didn't learn very much about the games released for it at the time.
That's because it was only a 4 pager. Normally I would discuss the game library as a whole within the article itself (which is where I feel it belongs), and with the smaller size to work with I felt it was more important to cover some of the more need to know info regarding the console and its design. Additionally I wanted to contrast the content of the previous article on the 5200 from several years ago. Whether I had 4 pages or 20, I still would never attempt to cover about the release of games at the time for the perfect 10, per my reasons stated several time already.
Thanks for the explanation. It wasn't so much a criticism, as I really enjoyed your article (don't actually remember a previous 5200 article, must be old age) I was just sad that there was no real discussion of the games for the system... never mind - perhaps we can have another article on the 5200's games, as it is a system I'd really like to learn more about.

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rolan
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by rolan » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:32 am

Yeah i enjoyed reading about it as well, Atari was before my time so its nice to know what consoles were around before nintendo and sega came along. I find the whole atari (2600, 5200, 7800 , and other random numbers) thing confusing so its nice to find out what is what.

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Dunjohn
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by Dunjohn » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:45 am

Just got the issue yesterday and loving it so far.

The Next Issue page promises a feature on the Strike series - didn't we already have one of those?
It's called a MEGADRIVE

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fgasking
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Re: Issue 80 feedback

Post by fgasking » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:44 am

Very enjoyable issue this month!.... Ikari Warriors, Excitebike, Bad Influence, DID to name a few :-)
Hunting and reporting on lost/unreleased games...

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