Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

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TMR
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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by TMR » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:15 am

yakmag wrote:Could one of the luverly readers (who have a copy of the issue) put scans of it on this forum?
Not sure... but they're already on teh interwebs (clicky and look at the right hand side of the second row of thumbnails).

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CraigGrannell
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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by CraigGrannell » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:27 am

^^ If that doesn't work, navigate from the home page of http://www.zzap64.co.uk/ to issue 16, from page 40.
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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by The Master » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:43 pm

I'm probably more excited by the prospect of this article than any other that's been promised in RG to date (yes, even the definitive Pac-Man...)
gleeple doople zwak-zwak snafn olg mmnnnnip

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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by paranoid marvin » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:52 am

The Master wrote:I'm probably more excited by the prospect of this article than any other that's been promised in RG to date (yes, even the definitive Pac-Man...)
Same here
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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by markopoloman » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:04 am

and here too.
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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by kaiserpc » Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:11 pm

please try and contact David Whittaker again, he is hardly ever mentioned compared to the big 3 (Galway, Hubbard, and Dalglish) - who are all brilliant by the way. Some of my favourite c64 tunes were done by Whittaker;

Knight Games (all the tunes)
Elektra Glide
Armageddon Man
Feud
Lazy Jones
Milk Race
Street Surfer
c64 > spectrum 48k

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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by CraigGrannell » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:49 am

kaiserpc wrote:please try and contact David Whittaker again
First email: he wasn't interested (too busy). Second email: he hasn't responded at all. I'll try again later (third time's a charm, right?), but don't hold your breath. (And I'm a huge fan of DW, so I'm not being dismissive—just realistic.)
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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by markopoloman » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:17 am

Just pop his email address here and we will all email him into submission! :mrgreen:
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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by Sherringford Hovis » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:55 am

LOL, imagine that? "Restraining order served on entire internet community". Got to be a first:)

As for the SID article, it's a great idea! I used to own a Speccy and then a c64, the main reason for the c64 was the music. Love to see some of the names we all remember revealing there secrets and a where are they now type box out, these guys are talented musicians and I would love to hear what they are up to now.

Something I would be interested in is the whole evolution of SID music from the first simply ditties right up to the complicated masterpieces by the big names later on, how the musicians got to grips with it and the tricks they employed. Was there a lot of collaboration or where they in competition for work. The whole genesis of SID music I think is fascinating.

Of course, the SID couldn't match the awesome power of the 48K Spectrum beeper mind you but what could? :)
I think therefore I'm right!

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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by R. Prime » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:00 pm

Would be great to see at least a boxout on music making software, to whet the appetite of some of the musicians out there

sadotracker, MSSIAH/prophet64 etc

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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by Japster » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:33 am

killermike wrote:Perhaps the SidStation deserves a mention?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektron_SidStation
...and possibly the Prophet C64, the dual SID mod for it, and modded C64 derivatives scene?

Also, are any of the guys who are still in the C64/BIT music scene (Ben, MadFiddler/Mark Knight, etc, aware of these/had a play with them?)...

...also, has anyone heard the recent SID/VICious concept 4 part demo/collaboration?! - amazing what those guys have done with the SID / C64 - not strictly my thing, as it involves samples (and clear, high-quality ones and modtracking at that!), but still DEFINITELY worth a look if you're into your SID... :mrgreen:

Oh yeah, and was playing "Mr. Marvellous.SID" on my MMC Replay/C64 - How the hell do you get those kind of sounds from a SID, without samples?!?!...

As for music, I'd love to see a proper, reader's (and RG staff's!) top 10/30/100 SID game and (Possibly seperate) demo tunes, and see how my tastes compare with the majority of our fellow retro SID-Heads... :D

Would certainly be definitive, so would LOVE to see/have you guys organise a readers poll... :D

On a final note - I'm aware that a lot of the great C64 musicians were also great coders, and had written their music routines themselves - Might be interesting to hear about how they went around this, how much hassle it was, and any tricks they managed to find to enhance their own sound players/routines? - i.e. like Martin G's, Martin W's, Ben's, Rob's, etc... unique sounds - You KNEW who'd written a piece of music a lot of the time, just by the 'sound' of it (i.e. not that it was wholly similar to their others, but more down to both their style, but their players/music routines?)...

Cheers all...

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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by CraigGrannell » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:48 am

Thanks for the ideas—keep 'em coming. Still waiting to hear back from a few people, but most of those I've asked are up for the article.
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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by TMR » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:31 am

Japster wrote:Oh yeah, and was playing "Mr. Marvellous.SID" on my MMC Replay/C64 - How the hell do you get those kind of sounds from a SID, without samples?!?!...
With the SID's ring modulator, Jammer's become something of an expert with "Mr. Marvellous", "HVSC" and "Club Style" but there have been others using it (Agemixer's cover of the Bombfunk MCs' "Freestyler" springs to mind) and the first experiments i remember hearing were by JCH of the Vibrants in the early 1990's (whilst stood at the Thalamus stand at a show, i seem to recall!) - have a listen to "Orcus_giv_It_up" in his HVSC directory (let the tune it defaults to play) and it "sings" the words "give it up" along to the tune in the same way.

The CPU load required for ring modulated speech is significantly less than required by samples (the driver that JCH uses is single speed, so runs in at around 24 scanlines if memory serves, some of Jammer's and the Agemixer tune i mentioned are using multi-speed so it's a little more hungry but still far more efficient than a sample player) and will play on anything bar a C64DTV as well.

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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by Japster » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:53 am

TMR wrote:
Japster wrote:Oh yeah, and was playing "Mr. Marvellous.SID" on my MMC Replay/C64 - How the hell do you get those kind of sounds from a SID, without samples?!?!...
With the SID's ring modulator, Jammer's become something of an expert with "Mr. Marvellous", "HVSC" and "Club Style" but there have been others using it (Agemixer's cover of the Bombfunk MCs' "Freestyler" springs to mind) and the first experiments i remember hearing were by JCH of the Vibrants in the early 1990's (whilst stood at the Thalamus stand at a show, i seem to recall!) - have a listen to "Orcus_giv_It_up" in his HVSC directory (let the tune it defaults to play) and it "sings" the words "give it up" along to the tune in the same way.

The CPU load required for ring modulated speech is significantly less than required by samples (the driver that JCH uses is single speed, so runs in at around 24 scanlines if memory serves, some of Jammer's and the Agemixer tune i mentioned are using multi-speed so it's a little more hungry but still far more efficient than a sample player) and will play on anything bar a C64DTV as well.
Excellent! - Cheers for the extra info and suggestions TMR, much appreciated! - Will seek those other tracks out too, and have a damn good listen - Nice to hear from someone who's into it enough to really know their stuff... :mrgreen:

I do believe I'm getting (worryingly!) excited about the possibility of this article, which reminds me - if it goes ahead? - would be MEGA if you can get an interview or a Q & A with Bob Yannes, or even just put a decent amount of detail about the man himself, and the evolution of his idea, possibly from other (probably abundant!) resources, in order to give this guy credit for his amazing chip! (There must be 1 or 2 people who still don't know he created their much-loved piece of hardware!) - I remember reading "On The Edge - TRAFOC", and had some great background and detailed info on how he went about designing the SID, how he sneaked extra cool stuff in (because he could!), and generally how he made it so much better than the original requirement (not to mention how he was trying to make it even better, with more features, but simply ran out of time/silicon space :mrgreen: ) - The man's an absolute legend in my eyes, and pretty much responsible (along with our well-known C64 composer legends) for people sitting in front of their computers and saying "WOW! - what... the...? - that's REAL music coming out of my computer, it's bloody amazing, and I want more of it!!"... :mrgreen:

Admittedly, looking at some web sites, he might not even seem interested any more, but credit where it's due, for what he created, and you never know - he may respond to you guys!... :mrgreen:

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Re: Your ideal SID/C64 music feature in Retro Gamer

Post by skinny » Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:39 pm

CraigGrannell wrote:Thanks for the ideas—keep 'em coming. Still waiting to hear back from a few people, but most of those I've asked are up for the article.
Is Barry Leitch (Jackal) included?

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