Do you want new making ofs?

Want to air your opinions on the latest issue of Retro Gamer? Step inside...

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Would you like making ofs or be able to discuss newer old games?

No I don't want to see GameCube, PS2 or XBOX in the mag as there are plenty of old classics still to cover.
32
52%
Yes, I don't mind as I love learning about old games, regardless of their actual age.
30
48%
 
Total votes: 62

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neuromancer
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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by neuromancer » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:25 am

Havantgottaclue wrote:Another thing about more recent 'Making Ofs ...' is that most of the more recent games were written by development teams consisting of dozens of people. Part of what makes older Making Ofs interesting to me is that you're almost always talking to someone who has had direct control over most of the conception, design and execution of the game, and sometimes even the graphics and the music as well. The story of how a single individual managed to crowbar the game into so little RAM/such limited graphical capabilities etc. is one of the most engaging aspects of retrogaming and early computing history to me. Admittedly, we're going to have to move on at some stage, though.
That's a very good point - the whole bedroom-coder element of the classic era (home computer programming especially, but also on the early consoles) really is a large part of the appeal. The larger the coding teams get the more likely the result will be 'designed by committee', and the less an individual's influence can shine through.

Getting the inside track from a sole coder (such as this issue's Dynamite Dan piece) always makes for a great read.

That said In the last year I've come to realise what a cracking console (ok, it's a pc in a black box) the Xbox is after hating it for years (I bought one at launch, but found the mark 1's gpu fan and dvd so ridiculously loud and distracting). For this reason I'd love to read about Project Gotham and it's root in the Dreamcast title Metropolis Street Racer, for example.

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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by joefish » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:41 am

Why why why?
Couldn't you at least stick to older stuff? What about Playstation / N64 'Making-Ofs'? How all those 2D programmers put themselves through the wringer of moving to 3D. And I'm sure there's plenty of 8-bit and 16-bit stuff to cover. There have been very few articles on ST or Amiga games outside of the specific issue where that machine was the featured hardware.
I can already see a huge slant towards the 16-bit consoles in the magazine. OK, so SEGA released a big bunch of classic cartridge games, but to someone who didn't have a Megadrive they're awfully samey and really not all that interesting. Just because you've run out of old home computers to cover doesn't mean you have to give up on their game coverage.

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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by neuromancer » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:02 am

joefish wrote:Why why why?
Couldn't you at least stick to older stuff? What about Playstation / N64 'Making-Ofs'? How all those 2D programmers put themselves through the wringer of moving to 3D. And I'm sure there's plenty of 8-bit and 16-bit stuff to cover. There have been very few articles on ST or Amiga games outside of the specific issue where that machine was the featured hardware.
Now I'm starting to feel like Paul Whitehouse's Fast Show character - the guy that finds himself agreeing with everything anyone else says, even when they contradict each-other. But you're right, there hasn't been much N64 stuff at all, bar the retroinspection and Goldeneye pieces, and not much Playstation coverage either, that I can remember.

I'd love to see a Making Of for Rage Racer; I've heard this referred to as a Marmite game (love it / hate it) but I absolutely loved this one - yes, on a PAL machine it's definitely sluggish until you get a half-decent car, but it plays brilliantly once it gets going, and looks astounding.

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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by paranoid marvin » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:43 am

Tbh by featuring more recent games I feel we are bypassing whole swathes of classics.
Apart from the issues that feature the consoles themselves , there's been virtually no coverage of
games for some machines (Atari 2600 , Vic 20 , C16 , ST) to name but four.
Why start covering PS2 games when there are HUNDREDS of older classics games waiting to covered
and DOZENS of bedroom coders begging to be interviewed?

I'd much rather hear the rags-to riches story of the programmer of 3D Deathchase , than I would one of the team of designers
who created Ratchet & Clank.

For me , that is what retro gaming , and therefore Retro Gamer , should be all about.

Having said that , like I've said before , I trust Darran's judgement , I accept there will be stuff I dont like in the mag
and I won't be cancelling my subscription under ANY circumstances!
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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by neuromancer » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:02 am

To be pragmatic about this, if some elements of the last gen were included the magazine the potential readership could be broadened - ultimately if that's what it takes to keep RG going then that's no bad thing (and, no, I don't mean this to say that there's a problem, but all Imagine Publishing is a business, and all businesses aim to not only make money, but increase how much they make). I think the balance would have to be carefully managed though.

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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by nakamura » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:20 pm

Simple fact is you are never gonna make everyone happy and people will moan even though they cant do better themselves. Everyone wants to the their favourite stuff featured.
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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by Fred83 » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:32 pm

Oh shenmue on the xbox and shinobi on ps2 would be nice as well.
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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by bolda » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:34 pm

paranoid marvin wrote:We've hardly scratched the surface of the PS1 yet - is there any real NEED to go further forward than this?
That sums up my thoughts perfectly!
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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by necronom » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:27 pm

bolda wrote:
paranoid marvin wrote:We've hardly scratched the surface of the PS1 yet - is there any real NEED to go further forward than this?
That sums up my thoughts perfectly!
If you change PS1 for Amiga, I'd agree.
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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:13 pm

For those starting to jump up and down, let me just remind you that I never ever said this was happening I was just gauging interest. As I thought it's turned out exactly as I expected. Just as many people want to see new stuff in the magazine, while the hardcore 8-bit crowd are absolutely dead set against it. Which is absolutely fine.

We're not going to be covering any of the last gen systems (aside from mentioning them in overall features as we currently do with definitives) any time in the near future, as it's been pointed out that loads of games haven't been covered yet. I just wanted to prove a point that retro gaming means completely different things to different people and how difficult it is to keep everyone happy and this thread highlights that.

As for the four systems mentioned, well the issue there is that few people pitch articles about them. We've recently just commissioned a feature on the Archimedes, simply because it's the first time it's been pitched to us. Granted Stuart or myself could put some research into it, but it's never going to be as polished as someone who knows the machine inside out.

Retro Gamer will always be about retro games and machines. Just remember that retro means different things to different people and that there will be no making ofs of Xbox, PS2 or GameCube games any time in the future (unless of course thet were on the Dreamcast first ;) )
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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by paranoid marvin » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:31 pm

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:For those starting to jump up and down, let me just remind you that I never ever said this was happening I was just gauging interest. As I thought it's turned out exactly as I expected. Just as many people want to see new stuff in the magazine, while the hardcore 8-bit crowd are absolutely dead set against it. Which is absolutely fine.

We're not going to be covering any of the last gen systems (aside from mentioning them in overall features as we currently do with definitives) any time in the near future, as it's been pointed out that loads of games haven't been covered yet. I just wanted to prove a point that retro gaming means completely different things to different people and how difficult it is to keep everyone happy and this thread highlights that.

As for the four systems mentioned, well the issue there is that few people pitch articles about them. We've recently just commissioned a feature on the Archimedes, simply because it's the first time it's been pitched to us. Granted Stuart or myself could put some research into it, but it's never going to be as polished as someone who knows the machine inside out.

Retro Gamer will always be about retro games and machines. Just remember that retro means different things to different people and that there will be no making ofs of Xbox, PS2 or GameCube games any time in the future (unless of course thet were on the Dreamcast first ;) )
46 votes , precisley 50/50 split. Couldnt be more right! :lol:
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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by neuromancer » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:35 pm

Archimedes? I'd *love* to see something on Arc Elite :D :D :D

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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by necronom » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:59 pm

Anything on the Archimedes would be great. I've never used one, and was always interested in how they worked.
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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by joefish » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:32 am

Darran - if this isn't going to happen, why suggest it? And why wind people up with suggestions like this (which you knew was going to happen), then further antagonise them by pigeonholing them as 8-bit hardcore fanatics?

I'm not the only one that's objected to coverage of last-gen consoles, but I'm more than happy to see 16-bit stuff covered - it's the home computing aspect that's the draw, not any one system. As such it's a bias towards something with a keyboard rather than something with a joypad. And if a new title (like Mario Galaxy) is part of a retro series or theme then I'm interested in that too.

But you refer to 'the hardcore 8-bit crowd' whilst pitching about XBoxes - there's a hell of a lot of middle ground that, by the impression you're giving, the magazine is completely blind to. That's the frustration with all of these discussions.

Given how quickly the market dumped the XBox in favour of the 360, I don't see the point in pursuing that as a Retro Market - you need some sort of brand loyalty and nostalgia, which you won't find amongst those who view a console as a disposable commodity.

As for 'pitching' - maybe you could explain how the magazine is put together? If you're waiting on anyone to spontaneously write a piece on 'Shadow of the Beast' then I can see that could be a long wait. So if you want contributions of actual articles rather than just 'readers' letters' then maybe you could put that request in print.

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Re: Do you want new making ofs?

Post by nakamura » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:45 am

I just dont see why people cant enjoy the mag for what it is. All people have their own ideas on what they want to see but there every issue i have read has been a great read. Even systems or games i havent played that have been featured have often been interesting and you can often find snippets of info in these articles that would interest you anyway.
So what if they feature the making of Final Fantasy 12. Its the quality of the articles that matter. Almost all other mags are so badly written ive not purchased a magazine in over 4 years.

Another thing is in the bias people have mentioned. Well there are only so many hours in a day and literally millions of potential things to write about its impossible to keep everything split fair between machines.
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