The Mobile Phone Section

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Rev. Stuart Campbell
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by Rev. Stuart Campbell » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:50 am

ipmarks wrote:If they're updated or new versions, then they're not retro.
That's a bit mental. A new version of Pole Position, say, is still a retro game, because it's still Pole Position.

Interesting to know that iPhone games can be played without the phone component. I'll keep my eyes open for a cheap iPod Touch now.

Bub&Bob
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by Bub&Bob » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:58 am

Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote:I'll keep my eyes open for a cheap iPod Touch now.
Not sure what you would consider cheap but good luck with that as they all seem pretty expensive to me!
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Rev. Stuart Campbell
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by Rev. Stuart Campbell » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:41 am

Bub&Bob wrote:
Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote:I'll keep my eyes open for a cheap iPod Touch now.
Not sure what you would consider cheap but good luck with that as they all seem pretty expensive to me!
Well, not compared to an iPhone with a £35-a-month three-year contract...

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CraigGrannell
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by CraigGrannell » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:15 pm

Bub&Bob wrote:
Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote:I'll keep my eyes open for a cheap iPod Touch now.
Not sure what you would consider cheap but good luck with that as they all seem pretty expensive to me!
Even brand new, an 8GB iPod touch is about 150 quid from Amazon. That's not cheap, but when compared with a PSP or the upcoming DSi, the price point isn't awful. It's also possible to subscribe to RSS feeds for the refurb stores, to snare cheap iPod touches when they show up (which isn't often, hence RSS being a good idea).

Oh, and Stu—the iPhone contract is 18 months rather than three years. Still not worth it to most people and pretty expensive, to say the least, but not quite £1260 of bad.
iPhone/iPod/iPad game/app reviews: http://www.iphonetiny.com

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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by Bub&Bob » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:20 am

CraigGrannell wrote:
Bub&Bob wrote:
Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote:I'll keep my eyes open for a cheap iPod Touch now.
Not sure what you would consider cheap but good luck with that as they all seem pretty expensive to me!
Even brand new, an 8GB iPod touch is about 150 quid from Amazon. That's not cheap, but when compared with a PSP or the upcoming DSi, the price point isn't awful. It's also possible to subscribe to RSS feeds for the refurb stores, to snare cheap iPod touches when they show up (which isn't often, hence RSS being a good idea).

Oh, and Stu—the iPhone contract is 18 months rather than three years. Still not worth it to most people and pretty expensive, to say the least, but not quite £1260 of bad.
But here is the thing - I wouldn't compare it to the PSP / DS as its an MP3 player - compare it to the price of other MP3 player with that size of storage and its bloody expensive.
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CraigGrannell
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by CraigGrannell » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:20 am

Bub&Bob wrote:But here is the thing - I wouldn't compare it to the PSP / DS as its an MP3 player - compare it to the price of other MP3 player with that size of storage and its bloody expensive.
I don't see why you'd consider the iPod touch just "an MP3 player". Last time I looked, 'MP3 players' couldn't, by default, sync with my email, browse the internet, take photos, make phone calls over Wi-Fi, enable you to record music, provide apps for controlling a mixing desks, editing imagery and working in medicine, sync with Kindle content, display eBook files, enable you to play games like Loco-Roco, Sim City, and so on and so forth.

Previous iPod generations, up until and including the nano, were and are MP3 players with lip-service paid to additional functionality. There, I would agree: they are music players that have basic video functionality and simple games, in the same way a five-year-old Nokia is a phone that can sort of do some other stuff. The iPod touch is a mutlifunctional device that just happens to play music. Hell, even the 'iPod' part is merely an app within the device, not a major component of the interface.

To me, this is exactly what Sony was pushing the PSP as—a multifunctional unit for all kinds of media—and it's increasingly what Nintendo's trying to do with the DSi. Sure, the balance is different, and I suspect Apple had absolutely no idea just how popular games would be on the App Store, nor how developers would get around the (perceived) limitations of the device's inputs. However, dismissing the iPod touch as "an MP3 player" and suggesting it isn't comparable to devices positioned by their manufacturers in directly the same space does it a huge disservice.
iPhone/iPod/iPad game/app reviews: http://www.iphonetiny.com

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SirClive
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by SirClive » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:12 am

CraigGrannell wrote:To me, this is exactly what Sony was pushing the PSP as—a multifunctional unit for all kinds of media—and it's increasingly what Nintendo's trying to do with the DSi. Sure, the balance is different, and I suspect Apple had absolutely no idea just how popular games would be on the App Store, nor how developers would get around the (perceived) limitations of the device's inputs. However, dismissing the iPod touch as "an MP3 player" and suggesting it isn't comparable to devices positioned by their manufacturers in directly the same space does it a huge disservice.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
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Bub&Bob
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by Bub&Bob » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:15 am

CraigGrannell wrote:I don't see why you'd consider the iPod touch just "an MP3 player". Last time I looked, 'MP3 players' couldn't, by default, sync with my email, browse the internet, take photos, make phone calls over Wi-Fi, enable you to record music, provide apps for controlling a mixing desks, editing imagery and working in medicine, sync with Kindle content, display eBook files, enable you to play games like Loco-Roco, Sim City, and so on and so forth
To be fair (to me) I know very little about any ipod products - I just assumed that it was an MP3 player with some other stuff thrown in.
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CraigGrannell
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by CraigGrannell » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:02 pm

Well, more on the device is here. As for game credentials, these are my current favourites (apologies for the dodgy nature of some shots, but taking a screen grab while playing these games isn't easy):

Centipede
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Three versions are included. This one wants to be SIE, but there's also the arcade original. Great value for three quid.

Dropship
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Thrust/Gravitar-type game, using dual-thumb-anywhere controls. Tough to master, but great when you do, and it looks fab. 80p cheaper than Thrust was in 1986, too.

Frenzic
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Frenetic and relentless action puzzler that, for three quid, gives you the iPhone's Tetris.

Vector Tanks
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Currently a cross between Armor Attack's foes and Battlezone's view and controls, again for less than a 1980s 8-bit budget game.

And then there's Rolando, which is essentially Loco Roco and the most hyped of recent iPhone games. I've not really gotten into this, but reckon it might now be worth a punt, since it's dropped to under three quid in price. (The grab is from the 'lite' version.)

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iPhone/iPod/iPad game/app reviews: http://www.iphonetiny.com

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Timothy Lumsden
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by Timothy Lumsden » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:13 pm

The games looks nice (nicer than the one my mate had on his phone), but I still cant get past the physical design and lack of real buttons - it
just felt wrong - even after an hour's play, it never clicked for me - I was always aware I was using a device for which gaming is it's secondary purpose. I think it's one of life's Bovril moments - each person will either love or hate it

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FatTrucker
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by FatTrucker » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:17 pm

Timothy Lumsden wrote: but I still cant get past the physical design and lack of real buttons - it never clicked for me

Is it wrong that I just love that statement.
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CraigGrannell
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by CraigGrannell » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:47 pm

Timothy Lumsden wrote:I still cant get past the physical design and lack of real buttons - I think it's one of life's Bovril moments
I agree entirely with that, although for me these games are about something different to what I have elsewhere. I still have my DS and GBAs (and a 'new' Lynx!), and the iPhone hasn't replaced them—more augmented my set-up. Then again, most of my favourites outside of emulation on the DS/GBA are either touchscreen-based (Zoo Keeper) or have absurdly simple controls (Rhythm Tengoku, WarioWare), and so perhaps I'm more in that space these days than I realised, rather than clamouring for games with digital controls.
iPhone/iPod/iPad game/app reviews: http://www.iphonetiny.com

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ipmarks
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by ipmarks » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:29 pm

I think i'm going to agree to disagree and quit this argument....
It does seem that a pattern is developing, people make comments against the iPhone/Touch and then Craig or Darren tell us why we're wrong.
Also recently I've been told by another forum member that one of my arguments was mental... which seems a bit harsh.
I won't be convinced by the as I see it style (and expensive style at that) over substance of the iThing I'm afraid, it doesn't have any interest to me, but then neither does any sort of mobile gaming, except very occasionally the DS, although that's only used whilst in my own front room.

Mentally deranged it may seem to some, but I don't like modern updates of old games, sorry just personal opinion. I'm very much in the school of retro being proper old games. Disagree if you want, I'm happy for you to, different opinion is what makes life (and gaming) interesting.

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CraigGrannell
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by CraigGrannell » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:41 pm

ipmarks wrote:It does seem that a pattern is developing, people make comments against the iPhone/Touch and then Craig or Darren tell us why we're wrong.
Bit harsh. The only time I've called people 'wrong' is when there have been direct inaccuracies in what's been said. Someone saying "these games can only be played on devices with £35 per month contracts" is wrong, and I've reacted to that. Someone saying "the games on these devices are like those on crappy old mobile phones" is inaccurate, and I've reacted to that. However, someone saying "I don't think these devices are any good, and here's why", especially with first-hand experience, is opinion, and that's only been countered by me with my own opinion. I'm not 'right' in saying subjectively that I think OS X is a pretty good gaming platform—it's just an opinion. If that wasn't the case, surely I'd have reacted very differently to Timothy Lumsden's most recent post in this thread?
Mentally deranged it may seem to some, but I don't like modern updates of old games, sorry just personal opinion. I'm very much in the school of retro being proper old games. Disagree if you want, I'm happy for you to, different opinion is what makes life (and gaming) interesting.
Well, quite. It would be a pretty boring place if we all thought the same. For me, it's all down to how an update is done. OutRun 2 for me has old-skool sensibilities but blows away OutRun. SIE beats SI hands down. However, the majority of PC- and Mac-based remakes that merely reskin the original (and iPhone also has this kind of thing in games like Frogger) generally leave me utterly cold. And then there's the disaster that was Civ DS, which was one of the most depressing things I played last year.
iPhone/iPod/iPad game/app reviews: http://www.iphonetiny.com

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Team Alfie
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Re: The Iphone debate.

Post by Team Alfie » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:50 pm

There's no reason why Apple couldn't come up with something to slot into the docking port thingy to offer more traditional control, is there? They could effectively create a shell for it to turn it into something not too dissimilar a PSP. Not that I'm in need of anything like that, I like to see what developers can come up with for touch controls. I can hardly take the wait for Peggle to appear.
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